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I spent my middle and high school years in Athens, GA. It would not ordinarily be seen as a target for sprawl-bashing, given its ostensibly compact nature. And

I spent my middle and high school years in Athens, GA. It would not ordinarily be seen as a target for sprawl-bashing, given its ostensibly compact nature. And it's true, the downtown and campus are fused into something fairly livable. However, as usual, 90% of the population doesn't live in that tiny core, but instead in the same kind of low-density layout one can find anywhere in America. While I haven't been to Ann Arbor since grade six or so, my recollection is that it's similar; wonderful UMich campus, nice downtown, but most of the Ann Arbor-Ypsilanti area? Same old automobile folk traditions. Am I misremembering? Re: comparing density -- Density is certainly not the only variable. In my article, I made the point about how proximity/adjacency != walking accessibility. That seems relevant, too. It's probably quite possible to build a place with a decently high density where a car is still required to go anywhere, or a relatively low-density but profoundly pedestrian-friendly hamlet.

tptacek 10y ago
I know Athens solely from REM and Elephant 6 music. I've never been there. Saline and Ypsi are suburbs of Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor itself is mostly walkable, tree-lined, mixed-use, and connected by public transportation. More than 90% of the population of Ann Arbor lives in Ann Arbor and not Ypsi or Saline. :) What are the rest of the variables? I'd like to drive to specificity. If there's a set of US midsized cities that defies your characterizations, maybe there's something interesting that ties them together. I'm certainly not going to deny that there are crappy cities!
- abalashov 10y ago
  I'm not sure I've ever seen a midsized US city that defies my characterisations. I've seen plenty of cases where something progressive-sounding got built within them, but it was an island, unconnected and irrelevant. One mixed-use-sounding shopping strip with attached condos does not sprawl unmake.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    New Orleans, Minneapolis, Oakland, Berkeley, Providence, Madison. There are lots of cities in that population range, and they aren't islands. And, I just gave you a specific example that isn't "one mixed use sounding shopping strip with attached condos".
    - abalashov 10y ago
      Of those, I've only been to Minneapolis, but I can say with complete certainty that it, too, is a suburban wasteland. Yes, it's got a downtown that's clearly seeing some promise, as is true of numerous cities (even the very same Atlanta), but all in all, it's almost entirely a driving city.

tptacek 10y ago

I know Athens solely from REM and Elephant 6 music. I've never been there. Saline and Ypsi are suburbs of Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor itself is mostly walkable, tree-lined, mixed-use, and connected by public transportation. More than 90% of the population of Ann Arbor lives in Ann Arbor and not Ypsi or Saline. :) What are the rest of the variables? I'd like to drive to specificity. If there's a set of US midsized cities that defies your characterizations, maybe there's something interesting that ties them together. I'm certainly not going to deny that there are crappy cities!

abalashov 10y ago
I'm not sure I've ever seen a midsized US city that defies my characterisations. I've seen plenty of cases where something progressive-sounding got built within them, but it was an island, unconnected and irrelevant. One mixed-use-sounding shopping strip with attached condos does not sprawl unmake.
- tptacek 10y ago
  New Orleans, Minneapolis, Oakland, Berkeley, Providence, Madison. There are lots of cities in that population range, and they aren't islands. And, I just gave you a specific example that isn't "one mixed use sounding shopping strip with attached condos".
  - abalashov 10y ago
    Of those, I've only been to Minneapolis, but I can say with complete certainty that it, too, is a suburban wasteland. Yes, it's got a downtown that's clearly seeing some promise, as is true of numerous cities (even the very same Atlanta), but all in all, it's almost entirely a driving city.