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How can you seriously claim that roads are not subsidized? With the exception of a few toll roads, there is no fee to use them. Gas taxes are the only tax that

How can you seriously claim that roads are not subsidized? With the exception of a few toll roads, there is no fee to use them. Gas taxes are the only tax that can be connected to road use and those only cover about half of the cost of road construction and maintenance. In addition to the subsidy of half of the cost of the roads themselves, there is no tax to cover the cost of the environmental damage that cars cause. Added together, that is an enormous subsidy for car travel.

twoodfin 11y ago
The important distinction is that gas taxes could pay for the whole thing: Federal, state, local... 3T miles driven a year, $90B in annual public spending. It works out to about a $0.60/gallon cost. Even adding in a surtax for CO2 and other emissions, it wouldn't represent a premium over gas prices of a few years ago that certainly didn't destroy the system. It's just easier to pay for local roads with local property taxes. Everyone uses them even if they don't have cars. But most public transit systems could never imagine charging full fare to their riders. They'd go into a death spiral. AFAIK, most can't even cover their maintenance costs, let alone capital expenditures.
- TulliusCicero 11y ago
  If you really wanted to quantify the impact in a completely market-oriented way, you'd have factor in not just the road construction and maintenance and environmental impact, but also the negative value of the road noise, high danger to others (much higher per mile traveled per person than other modes), worsening of each other mode (car-dominant street design makes other modes slower and less safe), and value of the land (car infrastructure takes up far more space per traveler than other modes). By the time you're done factoring those in, driving would be expensive indeed, probably similar to the gas prices in Europe.

twoodfin 11y ago

The important distinction is that gas taxes could pay for the whole thing: Federal, state, local... 3T miles driven a year, $90B in annual public spending. It works out to about a $0.60/gallon cost. Even adding in a surtax for CO2 and other emissions, it wouldn't represent a premium over gas prices of a few years ago that certainly didn't destroy the system. It's just easier to pay for local roads with local property taxes. Everyone uses them even if they don't have cars. But most public transit systems could never imagine charging full fare to their riders. They'd go into a death spiral. AFAIK, most can't even cover their maintenance costs, let alone capital expenditures.

TulliusCicero 11y ago
If you really wanted to quantify the impact in a completely market-oriented way, you'd have factor in not just the road construction and maintenance and environmental impact, but also the negative value of the road noise, high danger to others (much higher per mile traveled per person than other modes), worsening of each other mode (car-dominant street design makes other modes slower and less safe), and value of the land (car infrastructure takes up far more space per traveler than other modes). By the time you're done factoring those in, driving would be expensive indeed, probably similar to the gas prices in Europe.