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> you are basically saying that those that don't have success don't have grit I don't remember saying that - please point out where I did. Thinking about your

> you are basically saying that those that don't have success don't have grit I don't remember saying that - please point out where I did. Thinking about your success in terms of factors you can control can improve your chances of success if you draw confidence from that philosophy, and lots of people do. The appearance of confidence (and the correlation between confidence and appearing confident) has been shown to improve chances of success in various situations.

ThomPete 10y ago
You are saying that by trying to force it into being a thing you can control. And again many people have confidence that doesn't mean they all have success. Keep in mind this article was trying to find the most encompassing reason for success. There is none as encompassing as luck. All the others are a subset.
- notduncansmith 10y ago
  I said originally that luck is just the set of things you don't know about. By definition, it thusly can't be an "encompassing reason" (implied singular) - it's a name that refers to a collection of reasons (a subset of all possible reasons). The discussions of confidence mindset and one's control over "success" are orthogonal, but I'm happy to discuss them.
  - ThomPete 10y ago
    Of course it can be an encompassing reason if that is the one that is to find in every case. Grit isn't, some are successful without grit, confidence isn't either some are successful while not confident. But luck, luck you find in every single case. The reason of success is luck luck in chance encounters which then leads to unpredictable outcomes amongst others success.
    - mindcrime 10y ago
      Sounds like a post-hoc fallacy to me. Or maybe a "just so story". You can always unwind somebody's story and find some point in the story where something happened that they could not necessarily have predicted, and cry "see, this person only succeeded because of luck". But we can't evaluate all the branches in the tree of outcomes that didn't happen exactly because they didn't happen. If you believe that people, to some extent "make their own luck" via their choices and actions, then you could just as easily speculate that if "lucky event A" didn't happen, then something else "lucky" would have happened anyway.
      - ThomPete 10y ago
        And so your argument against what I am saying is that you don't like it to be that way. Thats not an argument against what I am saying, that's just an opinion about the consequences of my argument.
        mindcrime 10y ago
        What?!??? What you just said has nothing to do with what I wrote above.
        ThomPete 10y ago
        Yes it does. You don't like the idea that luck could be the actual all embedding factor of success. "If you believe that people, to some extent "make their own luck" via their choices and actions, then you could just as easily speculate that if "lucky event A" didn't happen, then something else "lucky" would have happened anyway." No you can't speculate that at all. But I would like to see you try. You are just trying to insist that there is this path to success that can be taken without luck being involved which just isn't the case. The question that was asked is whether grit is the one factor to become successful. It's not, it can't be because if it was everyone who had grit would be successful they are not and so something else is needed. That thing is luck. Whether lucky that you were born with better of parents, higher IQ, extreme talent, went to the right school, meet the right people at the right time, have the right idea at the right time and so on. Grit is only there to make you stay in the game long enough that you might end up being successful but it can never be the all encompassing factor that explains it all. Only luck can.

ThomPete 10y ago

You are saying that by trying to force it into being a thing you can control. And again many people have confidence that doesn't mean they all have success. Keep in mind this article was trying to find the most encompassing reason for success. There is none as encompassing as luck. All the others are a subset.

notduncansmith 10y ago
I said originally that luck is just the set of things you don't know about. By definition, it thusly can't be an "encompassing reason" (implied singular) - it's a name that refers to a collection of reasons (a subset of all possible reasons). The discussions of confidence mindset and one's control over "success" are orthogonal, but I'm happy to discuss them.
- ThomPete 10y ago
  Of course it can be an encompassing reason if that is the one that is to find in every case. Grit isn't, some are successful without grit, confidence isn't either some are successful while not confident. But luck, luck you find in every single case. The reason of success is luck luck in chance encounters which then leads to unpredictable outcomes amongst others success.
  - mindcrime 10y ago
    Sounds like a post-hoc fallacy to me. Or maybe a "just so story". You can always unwind somebody's story and find some point in the story where something happened that they could not necessarily have predicted, and cry "see, this person only succeeded because of luck". But we can't evaluate all the branches in the tree of outcomes that didn't happen exactly because they didn't happen. If you believe that people, to some extent "make their own luck" via their choices and actions, then you could just as easily speculate that if "lucky event A" didn't happen, then something else "lucky" would have happened anyway.
    - ThomPete 10y ago
      And so your argument against what I am saying is that you don't like it to be that way. Thats not an argument against what I am saying, that's just an opinion about the consequences of my argument.
      - mindcrime 10y ago
        What?!??? What you just said has nothing to do with what I wrote above.
        ThomPete 10y ago
        Yes it does. You don't like the idea that luck could be the actual all embedding factor of success. "If you believe that people, to some extent "make their own luck" via their choices and actions, then you could just as easily speculate that if "lucky event A" didn't happen, then something else "lucky" would have happened anyway." No you can't speculate that at all. But I would like to see you try. You are just trying to insist that there is this path to success that can be taken without luck being involved which just isn't the case. The question that was asked is whether grit is the one factor to become successful. It's not, it can't be because if it was everyone who had grit would be successful they are not and so something else is needed. That thing is luck. Whether lucky that you were born with better of parents, higher IQ, extreme talent, went to the right school, meet the right people at the right time, have the right idea at the right time and so on. Grit is only there to make you stay in the game long enough that you might end up being successful but it can never be the all encompassing factor that explains it all. Only luck can.