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I'm not sure what you mean by "should" here. Are you arguing that I've misstated the law, or that the law is stupid?

computator 11y ago
Earlier you wrote: > it was discovered that they had never been Canadian citizens in the first place. Their parents lied to them and told them that they were Canadians You misunderstood a key fact from the article: They were born in Canada. "You are probably a Canadian citizen if you were born in Canada", according to: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules/index.asp http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules/index.asp where "probably" means there are very obscure exceptions that only a bureaucrat can dream up.
- MichaelGG 11y ago
  Unless born to foreign government [government] workers.
  - Symbiote 11y ago
    To make this clearer: This means diplomats, ambassadors, and other staff working in embassies etc. They get immunity from Canada's laws, and usually taxes, but in return get no benefits from being there. They aren't considered residents of Canada.
    - takno 11y ago
      The taxes thing was a pain when I worked in stores in Canada. You'd get about 10 customers a day presenting some kind of ID and claiming to be exempt from either gst or PST, and as a till monkey you'd have no knowledge or training in whether they were exempt or whether the IDs were legit. Add on people buying 6 cakes to avoid gst, and you might as well just press random tax buttons on the register
    - FatalLogic 11y ago
      Probably that was the spirit of the law, but the letter of the law happens to cover the sons' situation. It's an unlikely edge case that the people who drafted the law could never have foreseen.
hartpuff 11y ago
The law is not necessarily stupid, but an exception, if possible, probably should be made in this case, on moral grounds, since the kids seem to be victims of a situation they played no part in creating.
- cperciva 11y ago
  There are seven billion people in the world who are victims of not being born Canadian citizens. The distinguishing fact of these two is that their parents pretended to be Canadian; but while I have sympathy for the kids, it seems that it would be a bit perverse to say that if parents lie to their kids for long enough then we have a duty to make those lies come true.
  - hartpuff 11y ago
    Who is saying anything remotely like "if parents lie to their kids for long enough then we have a duty to make those lies come true"? Unless you're claiming 7 billion people in the world were born in Canada, the most distinguishing fact about these two is obviously not that their parents pretended to be Canadian.
    - cperciva 11y ago
      Unless you're claiming 7 billion people in the world were born in Canada Not at all. I'm claiming that 7 billion people are not Canadian citizens due to the circumstances of their birth.
      - hartpuff 11y ago
        > Not at all. Then, as I said, the most distinguishing fact about these two is obviously not that their parents pretended to be Canadian. There really is no point in arguing this since you believe the circumstances of someone born in Canada, raised to some extent in Canada, and having an affinity with Canada are analogous to someone who doesn't even know Canada exists, like a large proportion of that 7 billion you talk about. BTW, did you edit your other post? Not that it changes anything, but I don't remember it saying "victims of not being born Canadian citizens" when I replied.

Earlier you wrote: > it was discovered that they had never been Canadian citizens in the first place. Their parents lied to them and told them that they were Canadians You misunderstood a key fact from the article: They were born in Canada. "You are probably a Canadian citizen if you were born in Canada", according to: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules/index.asp http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules/index.asp where "probably" means there are very obscure exceptions that only a bureaucrat can dream up.

MichaelGG 11y ago
Unless born to foreign government [government] workers.
- Symbiote 11y ago
  To make this clearer: This means diplomats, ambassadors, and other staff working in embassies etc. They get immunity from Canada's laws, and usually taxes, but in return get no benefits from being there. They aren't considered residents of Canada.
  - takno 11y ago
    The taxes thing was a pain when I worked in stores in Canada. You'd get about 10 customers a day presenting some kind of ID and claiming to be exempt from either gst or PST, and as a till monkey you'd have no knowledge or training in whether they were exempt or whether the IDs were legit. Add on people buying 6 cakes to avoid gst, and you might as well just press random tax buttons on the register
  - FatalLogic 11y ago
    Probably that was the spirit of the law, but the letter of the law happens to cover the sons' situation. It's an unlikely edge case that the people who drafted the law could never have foreseen.

hartpuff 11y ago

The law is not necessarily stupid, but an exception, if possible, probably should be made in this case, on moral grounds, since the kids seem to be victims of a situation they played no part in creating.

cperciva 11y ago
There are seven billion people in the world who are victims of not being born Canadian citizens. The distinguishing fact of these two is that their parents pretended to be Canadian; but while I have sympathy for the kids, it seems that it would be a bit perverse to say that if parents lie to their kids for long enough then we have a duty to make those lies come true.
- hartpuff 11y ago
  Who is saying anything remotely like "if parents lie to their kids for long enough then we have a duty to make those lies come true"? Unless you're claiming 7 billion people in the world were born in Canada, the most distinguishing fact about these two is obviously not that their parents pretended to be Canadian.
  - cperciva 11y ago
    Unless you're claiming 7 billion people in the world were born in Canada Not at all. I'm claiming that 7 billion people are not Canadian citizens due to the circumstances of their birth.
    - hartpuff 11y ago
      > Not at all. Then, as I said, the most distinguishing fact about these two is obviously not that their parents pretended to be Canadian. There really is no point in arguing this since you believe the circumstances of someone born in Canada, raised to some extent in Canada, and having an affinity with Canada are analogous to someone who doesn't even know Canada exists, like a large proportion of that 7 billion you talk about. BTW, did you edit your other post? Not that it changes anything, but I don't remember it saying "victims of not being born Canadian citizens" when I replied.