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We should better educate people entering (or considering) PhD programs about their likely job prospects after graduation. There have been a lot of articles (ex

by sndean 11y ago

We should better educate people entering (or considering) PhD programs about their likely job prospects after graduation. There have been a lot of articles (example [2]) written about the terrible situation that graduating PhD students are put in, where they'll likely be stuck in a postdoc for 10+ years with no chance of advancement. It's insane that 1/3 are graduating without a job in hand. Either we limit the number of PhDs we generate or we increase the available number of (academic?) positions [1]. [1] https://research.wisc.edu/biomedworkforce/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2015/03/Larson-et-al-2014.pdf https://research.wisc.edu/biomedworkforce/wp-content/uploads... [2] http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/the-phd-bust-americas-awful-market-for-young-scientists-in-7-charts/273339/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/the-phd-...

munin 11y ago
they know. there is no other path to the job that they want. what do you propose they do instead?
- rwallace 11y ago
  The same thing 99% of the human race does and always has done, and the 1% who are wasting their lives trying to become astronauts or movie stars should also do: accept that the job you ideally want is not available, and learn to enjoy a job you can get.
  - munin 11y ago
    tell that to start-up founders and people trying to be athletes as well
    - rwallace 11y ago
      My remarks were certainly addressed also, by the same logic, to people trying to become Olympic athletes. Founding a startup isn't quite the same, because there isn't so much a fixed quota of startups. It is possible to win without having to make ten thousand other people lose.
      - munin 11y ago
        you'll only find out for sure if you'll lose when you try. if you don't try, you definitely lose. should we select movie stars, athletes, and professors at birth? via lottery?
        rwallace 11y ago
        > you'll only find out for sure if you'll lose when you try. if you don't try, you definitely lose. If you're going to follow that philosophy, you're better off buying a lottery ticket. They're a lot cheaper. > should we select movie stars, athletes, and professors at birth? via lottery? I'll bite that bullet. Partial allocation by lottery would be a lot less cruel and wasteful than the current system of full allocation by sacrifice.
- otoburb 11y ago
  The study surmises that they (PhD students) generally do not know: We describe evidence of a “default” postdoc and of “holding patterns” that suggest a need for increased attention to career planning among students, their mentors, graduate schools, and funders.[1] [1] http://science.sciencemag.org/content/352/6286/663 http://science.sciencemag.org/content/352/6286/663
  - pkaye 11y ago
    With the availability of information on the internet and their education levels, I have a hard time believing PhD students don't know about the job prospects. More likely they continue to believe that they will be the exceptional case.

by sndean 11y ago

munin 11y ago

they know. there is no other path to the job that they want. what do you propose they do instead?

rwallace 11y ago
The same thing 99% of the human race does and always has done, and the 1% who are wasting their lives trying to become astronauts or movie stars should also do: accept that the job you ideally want is not available, and learn to enjoy a job you can get.
- munin 11y ago
  tell that to start-up founders and people trying to be athletes as well
  - rwallace 11y ago
    My remarks were certainly addressed also, by the same logic, to people trying to become Olympic athletes. Founding a startup isn't quite the same, because there isn't so much a fixed quota of startups. It is possible to win without having to make ten thousand other people lose.
    - munin 11y ago
      you'll only find out for sure if you'll lose when you try. if you don't try, you definitely lose. should we select movie stars, athletes, and professors at birth? via lottery?
      - rwallace 11y ago
        > you'll only find out for sure if you'll lose when you try. if you don't try, you definitely lose. If you're going to follow that philosophy, you're better off buying a lottery ticket. They're a lot cheaper. > should we select movie stars, athletes, and professors at birth? via lottery? I'll bite that bullet. Partial allocation by lottery would be a lot less cruel and wasteful than the current system of full allocation by sacrifice.
otoburb 11y ago
The study surmises that they (PhD students) generally do not know: We describe evidence of a “default” postdoc and of “holding patterns” that suggest a need for increased attention to career planning among students, their mentors, graduate schools, and funders.[1] [1] http://science.sciencemag.org/content/352/6286/663 http://science.sciencemag.org/content/352/6286/663
- pkaye 11y ago
  With the availability of information on the internet and their education levels, I have a hard time believing PhD students don't know about the job prospects. More likely they continue to believe that they will be the exceptional case.