4 ms·

"Being addicted, by itself, is not a big deal." - As someone with an en extensive amount of first-hand knowledge, I disagree very very much. It is in fact so

by stryk 10y ago

"Being addicted, by itself, is not a big deal." - As someone with an en extensive amount of first-hand knowledge, I disagree very very much. It is in fact so big of a deal that it becomes your one and only deal. The worst part is, if you use opiates for a long period of time consistently - you WILL become reliant upon them. Your body will be chained to them, physically dependent, and I don't care who you are, where you come from, or how much money you have. 100% of the time, no exceptions willpower be damned. And as far as using opiates as a means to heal emotional pain and depression? That's is possibly the worst idea ever. You're flat out asking for a long, long slow death in which you probably kill yourself in the end anyway but in the meantime you disappoint anyone who has ever cared about you even slightly.

MichaelGG 10y ago
Well I guess we have two different sets of people and experience then. I've seen people do rather successfully in business, all while using opiates on the side. (I've seen a few people die too, but that was pretty much caused by illegal supply and lack of regulation/QC.) The actual addiction part, without supply constraints, becomes very, very simple logistics.
- stryk 10y ago
  Those logistics are not as simple as it may seem. 2 bags of dope/pills/caps/doses a day becomes 3, 4, 6, 8 twice a day + 9 on Sundays. Happens to everyone given a long enough usage period. There's that proverbial slippery slope there, and once you're over the hump it's checkmate. Wait until something happens to these successful folks - and it will. there's a weak link somewhere in the chain and when it breaks they will act like every other junky.
  - MichaelGG 10y ago
    And what is "acting like every other junkie" mean? Göring was a morphine user for what, 2 decades? Didn't stop him from becoming extremely powerful (misguided, but he accomplished a lot).
    - stryk 10y ago
      I mean the guys who are successful you mentioned, i assume they have nice jobs, families, maybe children -- the good stuff. Once shit hits the fan and they get a taste of dopesickness they will ignore all of that, the drug becomes priority #1 hell with everything else. Then they will do whatever and screw over whoever to fix the link of the chain that broke (ie, where to get them or how to pay for them, how to hide it, or whatever the problem may be) just like every other junkie. You will eventually look in their eyes and see nothing, like every other junkie. It's a short ride from having it all to having nowhere to sleep. It's a cycle and story told time and time again. If your friends want to stay successful and keep the good stuff in their lives they should get off the shit is all i'm saying. That's nowhere near easy to do, but it's gotta be done or they will crash & burn. Opiates don't really cure the pain anyway, just mask it. Goring had the advantage of being in a prominent position close to the leader before he got hooked and fell off. I'm sure any other lower nazi officer would've been cast off if they weren't buddies with the fuhrer. He also was in the advantageous (but bad) position of being able to tell his doctor "you're going to give me this dope when i ask for it or i'm going to toss you in the fucking oven"
      - MichaelGG 10y ago
        So it sounds like you're saying that the issue is availability, pricing, and legality. We're in agreement.
        stryk 10y ago
        Those things (except legality, because that's not stopping anyone) can be part of the problem, sure but it's a lot more than that. It's such a fragile house of cards you're describing with that situation and I don't know if you just don't believe me or you're taking it WAY too lightly. Those people who are successful are headed for disaster, even if they have the money to mitigate supply issues/price. If you care about these people, tell them rich people go to Passages in Malibu. It costs $80,000 and i can prove that. but maybe they can afford it?
BurningFrog 10y ago
I am 100% reliant upon, chained to, and physically dependent on both water and oxygen. But since they are cheaply and abundantly available, I can live a full happy life anyway.
- stryk 10y ago
  I'm sorry I don't understand your point? I mean, heroin is cheap and abundantly available.
  - BurningFrog 10y ago
    My point is that there is nothing inherently bad about being reliant upon, chained to, and physically dependent on a substance.
    - stryk 10y ago
      Couldn't the opposite be said as well? Isn't being completely bound by ANY substance at all, be it air or narcotics or whatever, inherently a negative? Reliance on oxygen makes the whole space thing difficult, chained to opiates makes you a monster, etc.
    - capote 10y ago
      We're not talking about inherent bad, or about oxygen. We're talking about addiction to opiates, which ruins lives and kills people. I've seen it first hand. Stop this nonsense.
      - BurningFrog 10y ago
        Opiate specific arguments could be reasonable. But the post I responded had no such arguments.
        capote 10y ago
        Then go to a thread about oxygen and water. This one's about opiates.
Spooky23 10y ago
Heroin has been illegal for a hundred years. We still have junkies. You can say the same about alcohol. Does alcohol ruin lives? Yes. But we limit many of the social impacts by treating it as a regulated substance vs a controlled substance.

by stryk 10y ago

MichaelGG 10y ago

Well I guess we have two different sets of people and experience then. I've seen people do rather successfully in business, all while using opiates on the side. (I've seen a few people die too, but that was pretty much caused by illegal supply and lack of regulation/QC.) The actual addiction part, without supply constraints, becomes very, very simple logistics.

stryk 10y ago
Those logistics are not as simple as it may seem. 2 bags of dope/pills/caps/doses a day becomes 3, 4, 6, 8 twice a day + 9 on Sundays. Happens to everyone given a long enough usage period. There's that proverbial slippery slope there, and once you're over the hump it's checkmate. Wait until something happens to these successful folks - and it will. there's a weak link somewhere in the chain and when it breaks they will act like every other junky.
- MichaelGG 10y ago
  And what is "acting like every other junkie" mean? Göring was a morphine user for what, 2 decades? Didn't stop him from becoming extremely powerful (misguided, but he accomplished a lot).
  - stryk 10y ago
    I mean the guys who are successful you mentioned, i assume they have nice jobs, families, maybe children -- the good stuff. Once shit hits the fan and they get a taste of dopesickness they will ignore all of that, the drug becomes priority #1 hell with everything else. Then they will do whatever and screw over whoever to fix the link of the chain that broke (ie, where to get them or how to pay for them, how to hide it, or whatever the problem may be) just like every other junkie. You will eventually look in their eyes and see nothing, like every other junkie. It's a short ride from having it all to having nowhere to sleep. It's a cycle and story told time and time again. If your friends want to stay successful and keep the good stuff in their lives they should get off the shit is all i'm saying. That's nowhere near easy to do, but it's gotta be done or they will crash & burn. Opiates don't really cure the pain anyway, just mask it. Goring had the advantage of being in a prominent position close to the leader before he got hooked and fell off. I'm sure any other lower nazi officer would've been cast off if they weren't buddies with the fuhrer. He also was in the advantageous (but bad) position of being able to tell his doctor "you're going to give me this dope when i ask for it or i'm going to toss you in the fucking oven"
    - MichaelGG 10y ago
      So it sounds like you're saying that the issue is availability, pricing, and legality. We're in agreement.
      - stryk 10y ago
        Those things (except legality, because that's not stopping anyone) can be part of the problem, sure but it's a lot more than that. It's such a fragile house of cards you're describing with that situation and I don't know if you just don't believe me or you're taking it WAY too lightly. Those people who are successful are headed for disaster, even if they have the money to mitigate supply issues/price. If you care about these people, tell them rich people go to Passages in Malibu. It costs $80,000 and i can prove that. but maybe they can afford it?

BurningFrog 10y ago

I am 100% reliant upon, chained to, and physically dependent on both water and oxygen. But since they are cheaply and abundantly available, I can live a full happy life anyway.

stryk 10y ago
I'm sorry I don't understand your point? I mean, heroin is cheap and abundantly available.
- BurningFrog 10y ago
  My point is that there is nothing inherently bad about being reliant upon, chained to, and physically dependent on a substance.
  - stryk 10y ago
    Couldn't the opposite be said as well? Isn't being completely bound by ANY substance at all, be it air or narcotics or whatever, inherently a negative? Reliance on oxygen makes the whole space thing difficult, chained to opiates makes you a monster, etc.
  - capote 10y ago
    We're not talking about inherent bad, or about oxygen. We're talking about addiction to opiates, which ruins lives and kills people. I've seen it first hand. Stop this nonsense.
    - BurningFrog 10y ago
      Opiate specific arguments could be reasonable. But the post I responded had no such arguments.
      - capote 10y ago
        Then go to a thread about oxygen and water. This one's about opiates.

Spooky23 10y ago

Heroin has been illegal for a hundred years. We still have junkies. You can say the same about alcohol. Does alcohol ruin lives? Yes. But we limit many of the social impacts by treating it as a regulated substance vs a controlled substance.