5 ms·

> the Windows Kernel is just as good as any FOSS kernel today in regards to stability. No it's really not. I've used Windows and Linux a lot and in 10 years of

by zxcvcxz 10y ago

> the Windows Kernel is just as good as any FOSS kernel today in regards to stability. No it's really not. I've used Windows and Linux a lot and in 10 years of using Linux I've only twice had a kernel panic while using non-experimental software. On Windows I've had countless BSODs.

dlp211 10y ago
I'm guessing that your use cases for Windows and FOSS kernels are different, but I'll counter your anecdote with some of my own. Almost every single BSOD today is a hardware/driver problem. After Server 2003, MSFT got serious about kernel stability. I haven't had a BSOD from a kernel problem since Vista. Secondly, I also run multiple Server 2012 R2 servers with server hardware, and have never had a BSOD with any of those machines. Finally, Microsoft runs Azure on Win Server, if it wasn't stable, it's cloud platform would be in serious trouble. Disclaimer: I still work for Microsoft
- pritambaral 10y ago
  > if it wasn't stable, it's cloud platform would be in serious trouble It doesn't have to be unstable, just less stable than alternative kernels, according to the parent comment. At our office we use Gitlab (hear me out), and one of the CTOs (yes, there were multiple) was a big fan of Github and not such a big fan of Gitlab. Every time Gitlab.com went down, he'd rub it my face. So obviously I tried to find out the reason – was it a software issue or a development issue? I hadn't even considered infrastructure issue – turns out, Gitlab was on Azure, and they were facing a lot of instability on their infrastucture. (To their credit, they were already evaluating other services to move off of Azure). A cloud platform doesn't need to uber-stable to be profitable. They can provide good services, good tooling, good support etc. at the cost of small instability and still be good overall.
tjohns 10y ago
To be fair (and I'm really not a Windows fan), many of the BSODs on modern versions Windows can be attributed to shoddy third-party drivers. And as a point of comparison, I've had tons of kernel panics on MacOS over the years, for various reasons. Sometimes defective hardware, sometimes odd software interactions, and sometimes for reasons I can't explain. Windows has a lot of problems. The kernel itself is not really one of them. (That said, I still wouldn't use Windows on an embedded device, much less a life-critical one. Even using Linux would give me pause in this scenario.)
- jcrawfordor 10y ago
  I had a friend whose Macbook Pro started kernel panicking every time he exited emacs, completely reliably. A rather bizarre problem that persisted for months on his device, through some updates, but we couldn't replicate on another machine. Some kind of weird hardware issue? Corrupted software somewhere not detected by integrity checks? No idea. But these days, kernel panics and BSODs tend to originate from odd edge-case problems like that. (And yes, the joke "but why would you ever exit emacs?" was said many times)
ams6110 10y ago
I have BSODs on Windows too. It's almost always traceable to the graphics drivers. Nvidia software is shit. The Windows kernel is solid. If I disable the Nvidia drivers it never crashes.

by zxcvcxz 10y ago

dlp211 10y ago

I'm guessing that your use cases for Windows and FOSS kernels are different, but I'll counter your anecdote with some of my own. Almost every single BSOD today is a hardware/driver problem. After Server 2003, MSFT got serious about kernel stability. I haven't had a BSOD from a kernel problem since Vista. Secondly, I also run multiple Server 2012 R2 servers with server hardware, and have never had a BSOD with any of those machines. Finally, Microsoft runs Azure on Win Server, if it wasn't stable, it's cloud platform would be in serious trouble. Disclaimer: I still work for Microsoft

pritambaral 10y ago
> if it wasn't stable, it's cloud platform would be in serious trouble It doesn't have to be unstable, just less stable than alternative kernels, according to the parent comment. At our office we use Gitlab (hear me out), and one of the CTOs (yes, there were multiple) was a big fan of Github and not such a big fan of Gitlab. Every time Gitlab.com went down, he'd rub it my face. So obviously I tried to find out the reason – was it a software issue or a development issue? I hadn't even considered infrastructure issue – turns out, Gitlab was on Azure, and they were facing a lot of instability on their infrastucture. (To their credit, they were already evaluating other services to move off of Azure). A cloud platform doesn't need to uber-stable to be profitable. They can provide good services, good tooling, good support etc. at the cost of small instability and still be good overall.

tjohns 10y ago

To be fair (and I'm really not a Windows fan), many of the BSODs on modern versions Windows can be attributed to shoddy third-party drivers. And as a point of comparison, I've had tons of kernel panics on MacOS over the years, for various reasons. Sometimes defective hardware, sometimes odd software interactions, and sometimes for reasons I can't explain. Windows has a lot of problems. The kernel itself is not really one of them. (That said, I still wouldn't use Windows on an embedded device, much less a life-critical one. Even using Linux would give me pause in this scenario.)

jcrawfordor 10y ago
I had a friend whose Macbook Pro started kernel panicking every time he exited emacs, completely reliably. A rather bizarre problem that persisted for months on his device, through some updates, but we couldn't replicate on another machine. Some kind of weird hardware issue? Corrupted software somewhere not detected by integrity checks? No idea. But these days, kernel panics and BSODs tend to originate from odd edge-case problems like that. (And yes, the joke "but why would you ever exit emacs?" was said many times)

ams6110 10y ago

I have BSODs on Windows too. It's almost always traceable to the graphics drivers. Nvidia software is shit. The Windows kernel is solid. If I disable the Nvidia drivers it never crashes.