4 ms·

You're making a distinction about their intent but not their effect.

chaostheory 10y ago
Yes, you're right. I strongly feel that it's very important to have more empathy for people regardless of their background. Demonizing people who are different from you with an accusation without merit doesn't help anyone.
- MawNicker 10y ago
  I agree. It's an aggressive gambit. Fix this or you're X (bad thing) and people will hate you. That being said, people have a tendency to lean on the crutch of intentions. Which is itself just a more subtle gambit. It's acceptance implies that anyone can do anything for which a positive intention is conceivable. In this instance, the result is a blatant signaling game that the middle class necessarily appreciates the consequences of. They jockey for status using the commoditized correlates of worth. They have alienated us each from ourselves. From our actual worth or ability to do anything. Of course they're just trying to ensure what's best for themselves. But they increasingly do so with a grotesque and ruthless ignorance of how it impacts the people around them. Something has to mediate this. Otherwise the incentive is ultimately for everyone to abandon empathy. EDIT: Hmm. I seem to be shadow-banned. I'll reply here: I didn't do that. I did try to identify those things they were doing (intentionally or not) that were damaging and why they were doing them. I did this while acknowledging the nature of the labeling that was taking place. I tried to instill bilateral empathy instead of merely throwing my hands up and calling them name-callers. We can also have empathy for such people. They're not that out of line. The competitive behavior of the middle class is seemingly demonic. Especially from certain perspectives. I don't know where you're getting this demagogue stuff or the bit about the blind application of labels. We're all humans and we're all making observations of our local reality. In this tangent you seem to be perpetrating the no-name-calling philosophy you claim to oppose. EDIT EDIT: Ah. My mistake.
  - chaostheory 10y ago
    No one is accepting the bad consequences of intent. However, you're not going to get any constructive conversation if you're going the route of a demagogue and just blindly applying a very strong, simple label on millions of people. Historically, that never turns out well. If anything this just distracts people from the actual problems that need to be solved. EDIT: Sorry, I didn't mean to accuse you of writing things that a demagogue would say. That was meant for Tycho, but I just wanted to make my stance more clear for you. EDIT: My bad. You're right. There was no need to use demagogue; I'm also human as well. Like I said, it's very hard to have constructive conversation with strong accusations flying around. EDIT: I could be wrong but you're not shadowbanned. To prevent conversations from spiraling out of control like they do elsewhere, HN limits replies for certain sized threads with a time limit so people can think straight before replying again.
    - MawNicker 10y ago
      It said I was posting too quickly (regardless of where I tried to post) and I hadn't posted anything in over 45 minutes. Maybe it goes up exponentially or something and I've just never run afoul of it before.
    - Tycho 10y ago
      I think this is the actual problem, or at least the cause. So I predict that tuition costs will continue to inflate and the highschool system will continue with its deficiencies because most people don't realize the true nature of the problem. Still, the house of cards will collapse at some point. That will be interesting.

Yes, you're right. I strongly feel that it's very important to have more empathy for people regardless of their background. Demonizing people who are different from you with an accusation without merit doesn't help anyone.

MawNicker 10y ago
I agree. It's an aggressive gambit. Fix this or you're X (bad thing) and people will hate you. That being said, people have a tendency to lean on the crutch of intentions. Which is itself just a more subtle gambit. It's acceptance implies that anyone can do anything for which a positive intention is conceivable. In this instance, the result is a blatant signaling game that the middle class necessarily appreciates the consequences of. They jockey for status using the commoditized correlates of worth. They have alienated us each from ourselves. From our actual worth or ability to do anything. Of course they're just trying to ensure what's best for themselves. But they increasingly do so with a grotesque and ruthless ignorance of how it impacts the people around them. Something has to mediate this. Otherwise the incentive is ultimately for everyone to abandon empathy. EDIT: Hmm. I seem to be shadow-banned. I'll reply here: I didn't do that. I did try to identify those things they were doing (intentionally or not) that were damaging and why they were doing them. I did this while acknowledging the nature of the labeling that was taking place. I tried to instill bilateral empathy instead of merely throwing my hands up and calling them name-callers. We can also have empathy for such people. They're not that out of line. The competitive behavior of the middle class is seemingly demonic. Especially from certain perspectives. I don't know where you're getting this demagogue stuff or the bit about the blind application of labels. We're all humans and we're all making observations of our local reality. In this tangent you seem to be perpetrating the no-name-calling philosophy you claim to oppose. EDIT EDIT: Ah. My mistake.
- chaostheory 10y ago
  No one is accepting the bad consequences of intent. However, you're not going to get any constructive conversation if you're going the route of a demagogue and just blindly applying a very strong, simple label on millions of people. Historically, that never turns out well. If anything this just distracts people from the actual problems that need to be solved. EDIT: Sorry, I didn't mean to accuse you of writing things that a demagogue would say. That was meant for Tycho, but I just wanted to make my stance more clear for you. EDIT: My bad. You're right. There was no need to use demagogue; I'm also human as well. Like I said, it's very hard to have constructive conversation with strong accusations flying around. EDIT: I could be wrong but you're not shadowbanned. To prevent conversations from spiraling out of control like they do elsewhere, HN limits replies for certain sized threads with a time limit so people can think straight before replying again.
  - MawNicker 10y ago
    It said I was posting too quickly (regardless of where I tried to post) and I hadn't posted anything in over 45 minutes. Maybe it goes up exponentially or something and I've just never run afoul of it before.
  - Tycho 10y ago
    I think this is the actual problem, or at least the cause. So I predict that tuition costs will continue to inflate and the highschool system will continue with its deficiencies because most people don't realize the true nature of the problem. Still, the house of cards will collapse at some point. That will be interesting.