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There's this trope about us choosing to not throw people in jail but its just a consequence of needing real evidence against a person. Holder made some ckmment

by rtpg 10y ago

There's this trope about us choosing to not throw people in jail but its just a consequence of needing real evidence against a person. Holder made some ckmment to the line of " if we had the evidence , people at the DOJ would be rushing to charge. Throwing a Wall St exec in jail is a career-making case" (edit: actual quote https://mobile.twitter.com/lauraolin/status/727988087414984705 https://mobile.twitter.com/lauraolin/status/7279880874149847... ) The interests are totally aligned for the DOJ to crush any execs found of willful wrongdoing

samstave 10y ago
Holder will be known as one of the most corrupt pieces of shit in the history of the US government.
MaysonL 10y ago
How come we could find that evidence for all sorts of people, up to and including CEOs, after the S&L crisis? DOJ chose not to prosecute because of what? The way to do it is to pick a small fish, roll him, roll the guys he implicates, etc. Worked then, would have worked now.
- chishaku 10y ago
  > How come we could find that evidence for all sorts of people, up to and including CEOs, after the S&L crisis? The perspective of Bill Black, senior regulator and litigator during the S&L crisis: "So at the peak of the savings and loans crisis — again, one-seventieth the size of this crisis — of those 2,300 total FBI agents, 1,000 of them were working on just one industry, the savings and loan industry, to produce that incredible wave of success that we had. As recently as fiscal year 2007, there were only 120 FBI agents assigned to mortgage fraud, and that’s despite the fact that the FBI itself, in September 2004, warned that there was an epidemic of mortgage fraud — ‘epidemic’ was their word — and predicted that it would cause a financial crisis — ‘crisis’ was their word — unless it was stopped." "And what people don’t understand about the criminal justice system is there are roughly a million people employed in it — and of course, millions incarcerated in it. But of the million employees, 2,300 do elite white-collar investigations. And of those 2,300, you have to contrast that to the number of industries in the United States, which is over 1,300." http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/17/hundreds-of-wall-street-execs-went-to-prison-during-the-last-fraud-fueled-bank-crisis/ http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/17/hundreds-of-wall-street-exe...
mtgx 10y ago
Holder also said putting bankers in prison would "hurt the economy", which is such a load of crap. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/eric-holder-backtracks-remarks-on-too-big-to-jail/ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/eric-holder-backtr...
chishaku 10y ago
> The interests are totally aligned for the DOJ Are they? Eric Holder in 1999: "Prosecutors may consider the collateral consequences of a corporate criminal conviction in determining whether to charge the corporation with a criminal offense. Virtually every conviction of a corporation, like virtually every conviction of an individual, will have an impact on innocent third parties." [0] Eric Holder in 2013: "I am concerned that the size of some of these institutions becomes so large that it does become difficult to prosecute them." [0] > if we had the evidence In reference to Goldman/SEC settlement over Abacus: "Nor had they questioned top bankers in Goldman’s mortgage businesses or any of the bank’s senior executives. Even more surprising to Kidney, the agency had not taken testimony from John Paulson, the key figure at his eponymous hedge fund." [1] An investigator that doesn't ask questions will have a hard time finding evidence. [0]: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-09-25/wall-street-banks-and-their-critics-were-disappointed-in-eric-holder http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-09-25/wall-stree... [1]: http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/why-the-s-e-c-didnt-hit-goldman-sachs-harder http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/why-the-s-e-c-did...
- imglorp 10y ago
  > every conviction of a corporation [...] will have an impact on innocent third parties" Well there's your problem right there! Leave the corporations alone, along with most of the innocent shareholders and employees. Charge only the criminals as individuals, on up to the CEO. Jail, big fines, asset seizures. That would clear things up very quickly.
scintill76 10y ago
fuller quote: > "Those are career-making cases. Those cases are your ticket. The fight would have been over who got to try them. We just didn’t have the evidence." - Holder Yeah, well, not prosecuting those cases and then going into the private sector to defend those same types of infamous corporations, is apparently a $4 million/yr. career ticket too.[1] I'd say there'd be a certain glamor and having your name go in the history books by winning one of those cases, but clearly there are other "career-making" choices. [1] http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/03/28/once-more-through-the-revolving-door-for-justices-breuer/?_r=0 http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/03/28/once-more-through-the... P.S. Here's that Holder quote, for anyone that prefers text over a tweeted picture of text: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/05/09/the-man-who-terrifies-wall-street http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/05/09/the-man-who-ter...
EdHominem 10y ago
No, if this was an accident then many people were criminally negligent. Start prosecuting them for failing to ask the right questions and see if they start implicating others to save themselves. (ie, normal prosecutorial procedure.)
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

by rtpg 10y ago

samstave 10y ago

Holder will be known as one of the most corrupt pieces of shit in the history of the US government.

MaysonL 10y ago

How come we could find that evidence for all sorts of people, up to and including CEOs, after the S&L crisis? DOJ chose not to prosecute because of what? The way to do it is to pick a small fish, roll him, roll the guys he implicates, etc. Worked then, would have worked now.

chishaku 10y ago
> How come we could find that evidence for all sorts of people, up to and including CEOs, after the S&L crisis? The perspective of Bill Black, senior regulator and litigator during the S&L crisis: "So at the peak of the savings and loans crisis — again, one-seventieth the size of this crisis — of those 2,300 total FBI agents, 1,000 of them were working on just one industry, the savings and loan industry, to produce that incredible wave of success that we had. As recently as fiscal year 2007, there were only 120 FBI agents assigned to mortgage fraud, and that’s despite the fact that the FBI itself, in September 2004, warned that there was an epidemic of mortgage fraud — ‘epidemic’ was their word — and predicted that it would cause a financial crisis — ‘crisis’ was their word — unless it was stopped." "And what people don’t understand about the criminal justice system is there are roughly a million people employed in it — and of course, millions incarcerated in it. But of the million employees, 2,300 do elite white-collar investigations. And of those 2,300, you have to contrast that to the number of industries in the United States, which is over 1,300." http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/17/hundreds-of-wall-street-execs-went-to-prison-during-the-last-fraud-fueled-bank-crisis/ http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/17/hundreds-of-wall-street-exe...

mtgx 10y ago

Holder also said putting bankers in prison would "hurt the economy", which is such a load of crap. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/eric-holder-backtracks-remarks-on-too-big-to-jail/ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/eric-holder-backtr...

chishaku 10y ago

> The interests are totally aligned for the DOJ Are they? Eric Holder in 1999: "Prosecutors may consider the collateral consequences of a corporate criminal conviction in determining whether to charge the corporation with a criminal offense. Virtually every conviction of a corporation, like virtually every conviction of an individual, will have an impact on innocent third parties." [0] Eric Holder in 2013: "I am concerned that the size of some of these institutions becomes so large that it does become difficult to prosecute them." [0] > if we had the evidence In reference to Goldman/SEC settlement over Abacus: "Nor had they questioned top bankers in Goldman’s mortgage businesses or any of the bank’s senior executives. Even more surprising to Kidney, the agency had not taken testimony from John Paulson, the key figure at his eponymous hedge fund." [1] An investigator that doesn't ask questions will have a hard time finding evidence. [0]: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-09-25/wall-street-banks-and-their-critics-were-disappointed-in-eric-holder http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-09-25/wall-stree... [1]: http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/why-the-s-e-c-didnt-hit-goldman-sachs-harder http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/why-the-s-e-c-did...

imglorp 10y ago
> every conviction of a corporation [...] will have an impact on innocent third parties" Well there's your problem right there! Leave the corporations alone, along with most of the innocent shareholders and employees. Charge only the criminals as individuals, on up to the CEO. Jail, big fines, asset seizures. That would clear things up very quickly.

scintill76 10y ago

fuller quote: > "Those are career-making cases. Those cases are your ticket. The fight would have been over who got to try them. We just didn’t have the evidence." - Holder Yeah, well, not prosecuting those cases and then going into the private sector to defend those same types of infamous corporations, is apparently a $4 million/yr. career ticket too.[1] I'd say there'd be a certain glamor and having your name go in the history books by winning one of those cases, but clearly there are other "career-making" choices. [1] http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/03/28/once-more-through-the-revolving-door-for-justices-breuer/?_r=0 http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/03/28/once-more-through-the... P.S. Here's that Holder quote, for anyone that prefers text over a tweeted picture of text: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/05/09/the-man-who-terrifies-wall-street http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/05/09/the-man-who-ter...

EdHominem 10y ago

No, if this was an accident then many people were criminally negligent. Start prosecuting them for failing to ask the right questions and see if they start implicating others to save themselves. (ie, normal prosecutorial procedure.)

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]