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Yeah, it will be interesting to see how good AMD's Polaris chips will be, especially when it comes to energy efficiency. Fury was a step in the right direction

Yeah, it will be interesting to see how good AMD's Polaris chips will be, especially when it comes to energy efficiency. Fury was a step in the right direction (I'm wondering how much of this can be attributed to HBM's lower voltage etc.). But I'm even more interested in AMD Vega - the high end competitor to Nvidias GP 100 that is equipped with HBM2. Especially if AMD has an advantage over Nvidia when it comes to implementing HBM, since they developed it together with SK Hynx and have previous experience with Fury, or if this doesn't make a difference. Vega is also exiting because it should be released when AMD's Zen CPU's will be released, and there were rumors about a HPC Zen APU with Vega and HBM.

yohui 10y ago
Both Vega and Zen are supposed to be due sometime next year, correct?
- redtuesday 10y ago
  Yes, Zen for the desktop (Summit Ridge) is even listed for end of 2016 [1], followed by first Zen APU's (Raven Ridge) sometime 2017 and Vega early 2017. [2] [1] http://imgur.com/rRjKZDk http://imgur.com/rRjKZDk [2] http://i.imgur.com/lkjgayO.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/lkjgayO.jpg?1
mtgx 10y ago
If we're discussing future GPUs, does anyone know what exactly AMD means by "next-gen memory" when it talks about Navi? At first I thought it means that HBM2 would be available across their whole lineup, but I think if that was the case they would've just said so. I've also read a bit about how Nvidia wanted to go with HMC (Hyper Memory Cube) instead of HBM, but it seems it's still at least twice as expensive/GB, and they needed to go with high-end GPUs that have at least 16GB. HMC is not even at 8GB yet. Intel also seems to have adopted HMC for some servers. So is the "next-gen" memory HMC, or something else? AMD is supposed to come out with it in 2018, hopefully at 10nm.
- redtuesday 10y ago
  Was the difference between HMC and HBM not basically HMC had good latency comparable to normal main RAM like DDR3 plus good bandwith (up to 400 GB/s), while HBM had worse latency than DDR3 (like GDDR5) with a large bus and really good bandwith (1 TB/s)? Will indeed be interesting to see what AMD means with next gen memory.
  - Tuna-Fish 10y ago
    No. HMC is fully buffered and provides a packet-based interface to the CPU it's connected into. This means that the CPU doesn't need to know anything about the memory it uses, and saves die space on the CPU side, but it adds latency. HBM has lower latency than HMC. Also, GDDR5 does not have higher latency than DDR3. The memory arrays themselves are the same and exactly as fast, and the bus doesn't add any extra latency. GDDR5 doesn't trade latency for bandwidth, it trades density for bandwidth. Things built to use GDDDR5 often have much higher latencies than things built to use DDR3, but this has nothing to do with the memory and instead about how the memory controllers in GPUs delay accesses to merge ones close to each other to optimize for bandwidth.
    - redtuesday 10y ago
      Thank you for the detailed explanation. Always thought the added latency came from GDDR5. Good to know.

yohui 10y ago

Both Vega and Zen are supposed to be due sometime next year, correct?

redtuesday 10y ago
Yes, Zen for the desktop (Summit Ridge) is even listed for end of 2016 [1], followed by first Zen APU's (Raven Ridge) sometime 2017 and Vega early 2017. [2] [1] http://imgur.com/rRjKZDk http://imgur.com/rRjKZDk [2] http://i.imgur.com/lkjgayO.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/lkjgayO.jpg?1

mtgx 10y ago

If we're discussing future GPUs, does anyone know what exactly AMD means by "next-gen memory" when it talks about Navi? At first I thought it means that HBM2 would be available across their whole lineup, but I think if that was the case they would've just said so. I've also read a bit about how Nvidia wanted to go with HMC (Hyper Memory Cube) instead of HBM, but it seems it's still at least twice as expensive/GB, and they needed to go with high-end GPUs that have at least 16GB. HMC is not even at 8GB yet. Intel also seems to have adopted HMC for some servers. So is the "next-gen" memory HMC, or something else? AMD is supposed to come out with it in 2018, hopefully at 10nm.

redtuesday 10y ago
Was the difference between HMC and HBM not basically HMC had good latency comparable to normal main RAM like DDR3 plus good bandwith (up to 400 GB/s), while HBM had worse latency than DDR3 (like GDDR5) with a large bus and really good bandwith (1 TB/s)? Will indeed be interesting to see what AMD means with next gen memory.
- Tuna-Fish 10y ago
  No. HMC is fully buffered and provides a packet-based interface to the CPU it's connected into. This means that the CPU doesn't need to know anything about the memory it uses, and saves die space on the CPU side, but it adds latency. HBM has lower latency than HMC. Also, GDDR5 does not have higher latency than DDR3. The memory arrays themselves are the same and exactly as fast, and the bus doesn't add any extra latency. GDDR5 doesn't trade latency for bandwidth, it trades density for bandwidth. Things built to use GDDDR5 often have much higher latencies than things built to use DDR3, but this has nothing to do with the memory and instead about how the memory controllers in GPUs delay accesses to merge ones close to each other to optimize for bandwidth.
  - redtuesday 10y ago
    Thank you for the detailed explanation. Always thought the added latency came from GDDR5. Good to know.