4 ms·

I worked at Palantir for over 7 years, and that doesn't sound like any of the projects I knew about or any of the people that I worked with.

by dbt00 10y ago

jonathankoren 10y ago
While I'll defer to you about what people you know, I don't understand how that doesn't sound like any Palantir product you know. It's the core product. When it's sold commercially it's used to find people committing fraud, and those people could be arrested, put on trial, and if found by a jury of their peers to have committed the crime beyond a reasonable doubt, thrown in jail for a number of years. When it's sold to militaries and intelligence agencies it's used to make kill lists.[0] Don't delude yourself into thinking that it's founding wasn't to algorithmically create kill lists, because it founded in 2004 with funding from the CIA specifically to bring "big data analysis" to the "War on Terror". It's a scummy company. And if there's any doubt don't forget, they were implicated with HBGary in a dirty tricks plot against Wikileaks and Glenn Greenwald after the the scope of NSA mass surveillance was starting to be uncovered.[1][2] [0] http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/11/leaked-palantir-doc-reveals-uses-specific-functions-and-key-clients/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/11/leaked-palantir-doc-reveals... [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/palantir-wikileaks-apology-2011-2 http://www.businessinsider.com/palantir-wikileaks-apology-20... [2] http://www.businessinsider.com/palantir-wikileaks-2011-2?op=1 http://www.businessinsider.com/palantir-wikileaks-2011-2?op=...
- Anderkent 10y ago
  > When it's sold commercially it's used to find people committing fraud, and those people could be arrested, put on trial, and if found by a jury of their peers to have committed the crime beyond a reasonable doubt, thrown in jail for a number of years. Um, and that's a bad thing how, assuming they really committed fraud? > When it's sold to militaries and intelligence agencies it's used to make kill lists. Militaries and intelligence agencies do much more than just make kill lists. And I sincerely doubt such lists are created without human supervision. But being mostly a pacifist I've never wanted to work with those projects, so I don't know the details. disclaimer: I work at Palantir.
  - jonathankoren 10y ago
    The grandparent said he doesn't know of any Palantir product that sends people to jail. That just doesn't make any sense. But to answer your question: no, sending people to jail who have been convicted of a crime after a fair trial is not a bad thing. My problem with Palantir is that it's a surveillance tool that's used to kill people. You can't pass it off as "just a tool", because this was its initial rationale, and what its initial customers do. All the commercial fraud products are just after the fact product repositioning. The algorithmic kill lists I refer to go by the military term "signature strike"[1]. To create target lists, the government essentially data mines their survelince data use social network analysis (sound like any product you know?) and throws it through a machine learning classifier. If the classifier comes back "true", the person gets droned. The key thing to remember -- and this can't be stressed enough -- NO ONE IN THE KILL CHAIN KNOWS THE TARGET! It's just math.[0] Now think about that when your test fail, or you find a data error, or the next time you review your classification model's performance. If you work for this company, you owe it to yourself to understand what exactly this company is doing, and how its products are used. Palantir isn't like any other Silicon Valley company. Google just wants you click on ads. Facebook just wants you to click on ads. Uber just wants you to drive taxis and get taxi rides. Palantir rationale is to help people kill people. Maybe you were overwhelmed with the private car, the talk of vague cool stuff, the hint of cloak and dagger, and the 6-figure salary, but you owe it to yourself to get informed about the company -- and any company you're thinking about joining. This is triplely so when you're dealing with intelligence and military contractors. If you're honestly a pacifist, I hate to break it to you, but you've picked pretty much the worst company in Silicon Valley to work for. [1] Dont bother with Wikipwdia. It redirects to "targeted killing", which isn't precise. A signature strike is a specific type of assassination. [0] http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/06/18/obama-cia-returning-to-controversial-drone-signature-strikes http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/06/18/obama-cia-ret...

I worked at Palantir for over 7 years, and that doesn't sound like any of the projects I knew about or any of the people that I worked with.

by dbt00 10y ago

I worked at Palantir for over 7 years, and that doesn't sound like any of the projects I knew about or any of the people that I worked with.

jonathankoren 10y ago

While I'll defer to you about what people you know, I don't understand how that doesn't sound like any Palantir product you know. It's the core product. When it's sold commercially it's used to find people committing fraud, and those people could be arrested, put on trial, and if found by a jury of their peers to have committed the crime beyond a reasonable doubt, thrown in jail for a number of years. When it's sold to militaries and intelligence agencies it's used to make kill lists.[0] Don't delude yourself into thinking that it's founding wasn't to algorithmically create kill lists, because it founded in 2004 with funding from the CIA specifically to bring "big data analysis" to the "War on Terror". It's a scummy company. And if there's any doubt don't forget, they were implicated with HBGary in a dirty tricks plot against Wikileaks and Glenn Greenwald after the the scope of NSA mass surveillance was starting to be uncovered.[1][2] [0] http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/11/leaked-palantir-doc-reveals-uses-specific-functions-and-key-clients/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/11/leaked-palantir-doc-reveals... [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/palantir-wikileaks-apology-2011-2 http://www.businessinsider.com/palantir-wikileaks-apology-20... [2] http://www.businessinsider.com/palantir-wikileaks-2011-2?op=1 http://www.businessinsider.com/palantir-wikileaks-2011-2?op=...

Anderkent 10y ago
> When it's sold commercially it's used to find people committing fraud, and those people could be arrested, put on trial, and if found by a jury of their peers to have committed the crime beyond a reasonable doubt, thrown in jail for a number of years. Um, and that's a bad thing how, assuming they really committed fraud? > When it's sold to militaries and intelligence agencies it's used to make kill lists. Militaries and intelligence agencies do much more than just make kill lists. And I sincerely doubt such lists are created without human supervision. But being mostly a pacifist I've never wanted to work with those projects, so I don't know the details. disclaimer: I work at Palantir.
- jonathankoren 10y ago
  The grandparent said he doesn't know of any Palantir product that sends people to jail. That just doesn't make any sense. But to answer your question: no, sending people to jail who have been convicted of a crime after a fair trial is not a bad thing. My problem with Palantir is that it's a surveillance tool that's used to kill people. You can't pass it off as "just a tool", because this was its initial rationale, and what its initial customers do. All the commercial fraud products are just after the fact product repositioning. The algorithmic kill lists I refer to go by the military term "signature strike"[1]. To create target lists, the government essentially data mines their survelince data use social network analysis (sound like any product you know?) and throws it through a machine learning classifier. If the classifier comes back "true", the person gets droned. The key thing to remember -- and this can't be stressed enough -- NO ONE IN THE KILL CHAIN KNOWS THE TARGET! It's just math.[0] Now think about that when your test fail, or you find a data error, or the next time you review your classification model's performance. If you work for this company, you owe it to yourself to understand what exactly this company is doing, and how its products are used. Palantir isn't like any other Silicon Valley company. Google just wants you click on ads. Facebook just wants you to click on ads. Uber just wants you to drive taxis and get taxi rides. Palantir rationale is to help people kill people. Maybe you were overwhelmed with the private car, the talk of vague cool stuff, the hint of cloak and dagger, and the 6-figure salary, but you owe it to yourself to get informed about the company -- and any company you're thinking about joining. This is triplely so when you're dealing with intelligence and military contractors. If you're honestly a pacifist, I hate to break it to you, but you've picked pretty much the worst company in Silicon Valley to work for. [1] Dont bother with Wikipwdia. It redirects to "targeted killing", which isn't precise. A signature strike is a specific type of assassination. [0] http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/06/18/obama-cia-returning-to-controversial-drone-signature-strikes http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/06/18/obama-cia-ret...