7 ms·

Note that that work doesn't require a top CS degree. Palantir could easily achieve 97% of their results with tier 2 grads, but because they only take Stanford/P

by huac 10y ago

Note that that work doesn't require a top CS degree. Palantir could easily achieve 97% of their results with tier 2 grads, but because they only take Stanford/Princeton/MIT/etc, they can justify their high prices to clients. It's classic consulting - McKinsey/Bain/BCG could achieve 97% of their results with tier 2 grads instead of Harvard/Wharton grads at lower salaries, but you gotta wow the clients to win the jobs.

jrbapna 10y ago
What strikes me is when the clients know this to be true, but don't actually care. They have a budget and they need to spend it! Looking forward to the day when the market catches up to them.
- beachstartup 10y ago
  ah yes, a textbook NMP [1], CYA [2], OPM [3] scenario. [4] [1] NMP: Not My Problem [2] CYA: Cover Your Ass [3] OPM: Other Peoples' Money [4] Profit!
- rdtsc 10y ago
  The way it works is like this -- consultants like these have to have a good reputation. They are effectively the sacrificial goats to absorb failure. If the project fails everyone can say "but we had the best of the best doing this, if they failed, surely nobody could have done it better". In that model it makes sense to hire the most prestigious candidates. Also remember clients also have their own bosses, board of directors, investors and supervisors to answer to. It seems with Palantir it worked well with CIA. If you ever sold anything to Uncle Sam, you know he loves to pay lots of money and then pretty often it ends up not being used or forgotten. Guess they tried that with a few big companies but found out that Coca-Cola is not as careless with its budget as Uncle Sam, and \had a hard time convincing them to just throw away tens of millions on some analytics thing.
- deprave 10y ago
  It's part of the cowardice game. How do you both take credit when you succeed and avoid blame when you fail? You take an action that's easy to justify by external validity factors. If you succeed, you made the call, you take the credit. If you fail, you justify it using external validity factors ("they're one of SV's most valued companies! they only hire Stanford graduates!") to indicate there's no way anyone else could have done better.
- arkades 10y ago
  It's not a budgetary issue. Generally the consultants are brought in to bring about a conclusion that the managerial team already decided upon. The expense and prestige of the consulting firm now backs this conclusion with sunk cost fallacy, and the managerial team has political leverage to push forward with their plan. And, if it fails, political cover.
  - jonnathanson 10y ago
    This. People bring in consultants for one of two possible outcomes: 1) Rubber stamp a preconceived conclusion or idea; 2) Test out an idea and take the hit if it fails. Basically, they are there to ensure a win-win scenario for the commissioning member(s) of management.
  - hkmurakami 10y ago
    And to that end, the elite degrees confer a sense of authority and prestige. Additionally, "sounding smart" is a skill that such students have cultivated over the years in addition to but independent of possibly also being smart.
    - ParanoidSP 10y ago
      Huh, that got a bit convoluted near the end.
      - hola_hola 10y ago
        Think bulshit artist but with brains
        Chronic51 10y ago
        Can confirm. Fake it till you make it. But with a really smart person who can fake extremely well.
desdiv 10y ago
>Palantir could easily achieve 97% of their results with tier 2 grads, but because they only take Stanford/Princeton/MIT/etc, they can justify their high prices to clients. Do we actually have any data on Palantir's hiring practices? Because my personal anecdata is that I have a friend working there and he's from a tier 2 school (University of Toronto, maybe even tier 3?).
- rsanek 10y ago
  Top 5 schools according to LinkedIn are Stanford, Cornell, Berkeley, MIT, and CMU. See https://www.linkedin.com/vsearch/p?f_CC=20708&trk=rr_connectedness https://www.linkedin.com/vsearch/p?f_CC=20708&trk=rr_connect...
- vostok 10y ago
  I have an additional data point of someone who didn't finish any university.
- zpoley 10y ago
  Paysa ranks Palantir #20 in terms of tech talent [1], and also supports a large fraction of their workforce coming from tier 1 schools, as well as salaries [2] that can help attract top talent, even if the work turns out to be unsatisfying. [1] https://www.paysa.com/company-rank#!companies=Google:::Airbnb:::Uber:::Palantir+Technologies:::Facebook&startDate=2011-04-01 https://www.paysa.com/company-rank#!companies=Google:::Airbn... [2] https://www.paysa.com/salaries/palantir-technologies https://www.paysa.com/salaries/palantir-technologies
  - thedufer 10y ago
    That salary data is pretty misleading. The equity grants are almost entirely illiquid, and if you take those out the numbers start to look normal (for startups) or low (for big tech companies). Not what you'd expect to need to attract Stanford grads.
- sgnelson 10y ago
  Does anyone else find it a bit ironic that the same guy who wants to pay people to drop out of college is also the guy who only wants to hire from the "Top schools." I'm old enough now to know where you went to school doesn't correlate to who you are as a person and your level of intelligence (however you may wish to define the different types of intelligence). That and I've met way too many people from "Top Schools" who are just this side of morons, and too many people who have zero or little education who are quite intelligent/innovative/great "engineers"/etc. Still, it's all about that brand.
argonaut 10y ago
This applies to almost every tech and non-tech company, so this doesn't necessarily imply anything. All companies want to hire "the best" (let us set aside the totally valid question of whether or not elite schools graduate the best). And if you've done such a killer job at selling the reputation of the company to the public that all the top graduates want to work with you, why wouldn't you hire them?

by huac 10y ago

jrbapna 10y ago

What strikes me is when the clients know this to be true, but don't actually care. They have a budget and they need to spend it! Looking forward to the day when the market catches up to them.

beachstartup 10y ago
ah yes, a textbook NMP [1], CYA [2], OPM [3] scenario. [4] [1] NMP: Not My Problem [2] CYA: Cover Your Ass [3] OPM: Other Peoples' Money [4] Profit!
rdtsc 10y ago
The way it works is like this -- consultants like these have to have a good reputation. They are effectively the sacrificial goats to absorb failure. If the project fails everyone can say "but we had the best of the best doing this, if they failed, surely nobody could have done it better". In that model it makes sense to hire the most prestigious candidates. Also remember clients also have their own bosses, board of directors, investors and supervisors to answer to. It seems with Palantir it worked well with CIA. If you ever sold anything to Uncle Sam, you know he loves to pay lots of money and then pretty often it ends up not being used or forgotten. Guess they tried that with a few big companies but found out that Coca-Cola is not as careless with its budget as Uncle Sam, and \had a hard time convincing them to just throw away tens of millions on some analytics thing.
deprave 10y ago
It's part of the cowardice game. How do you both take credit when you succeed and avoid blame when you fail? You take an action that's easy to justify by external validity factors. If you succeed, you made the call, you take the credit. If you fail, you justify it using external validity factors ("they're one of SV's most valued companies! they only hire Stanford graduates!") to indicate there's no way anyone else could have done better.
arkades 10y ago
It's not a budgetary issue. Generally the consultants are brought in to bring about a conclusion that the managerial team already decided upon. The expense and prestige of the consulting firm now backs this conclusion with sunk cost fallacy, and the managerial team has political leverage to push forward with their plan. And, if it fails, political cover.
- jonnathanson 10y ago
  This. People bring in consultants for one of two possible outcomes: 1) Rubber stamp a preconceived conclusion or idea; 2) Test out an idea and take the hit if it fails. Basically, they are there to ensure a win-win scenario for the commissioning member(s) of management.
- hkmurakami 10y ago
  And to that end, the elite degrees confer a sense of authority and prestige. Additionally, "sounding smart" is a skill that such students have cultivated over the years in addition to but independent of possibly also being smart.
  - ParanoidSP 10y ago
    Huh, that got a bit convoluted near the end.
    - hola_hola 10y ago
      Think bulshit artist but with brains
      - Chronic51 10y ago
        Can confirm. Fake it till you make it. But with a really smart person who can fake extremely well.

desdiv 10y ago

>Palantir could easily achieve 97% of their results with tier 2 grads, but because they only take Stanford/Princeton/MIT/etc, they can justify their high prices to clients. Do we actually have any data on Palantir's hiring practices? Because my personal anecdata is that I have a friend working there and he's from a tier 2 school (University of Toronto, maybe even tier 3?).

rsanek 10y ago
Top 5 schools according to LinkedIn are Stanford, Cornell, Berkeley, MIT, and CMU. See https://www.linkedin.com/vsearch/p?f_CC=20708&trk=rr_connectedness https://www.linkedin.com/vsearch/p?f_CC=20708&trk=rr_connect...
vostok 10y ago
I have an additional data point of someone who didn't finish any university.
zpoley 10y ago
Paysa ranks Palantir #20 in terms of tech talent [1], and also supports a large fraction of their workforce coming from tier 1 schools, as well as salaries [2] that can help attract top talent, even if the work turns out to be unsatisfying. [1] https://www.paysa.com/company-rank#!companies=Google:::Airbnb:::Uber:::Palantir+Technologies:::Facebook&startDate=2011-04-01 https://www.paysa.com/company-rank#!companies=Google:::Airbn... [2] https://www.paysa.com/salaries/palantir-technologies https://www.paysa.com/salaries/palantir-technologies
- thedufer 10y ago
  That salary data is pretty misleading. The equity grants are almost entirely illiquid, and if you take those out the numbers start to look normal (for startups) or low (for big tech companies). Not what you'd expect to need to attract Stanford grads.
sgnelson 10y ago
Does anyone else find it a bit ironic that the same guy who wants to pay people to drop out of college is also the guy who only wants to hire from the "Top schools." I'm old enough now to know where you went to school doesn't correlate to who you are as a person and your level of intelligence (however you may wish to define the different types of intelligence). That and I've met way too many people from "Top Schools" who are just this side of morons, and too many people who have zero or little education who are quite intelligent/innovative/great "engineers"/etc. Still, it's all about that brand.

argonaut 10y ago

This applies to almost every tech and non-tech company, so this doesn't necessarily imply anything. All companies want to hire "the best" (let us set aside the totally valid question of whether or not elite schools graduate the best). And if you've done such a killer job at selling the reputation of the company to the public that all the top graduates want to work with you, why wouldn't you hire them?