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I find this pretty fascinating. Firstly because I'm overwhelmed with sympathy for this guy, and I stopped to ask why. I live in Chicago and I see the homeless e

I find this pretty fascinating. Firstly because I'm overwhelmed with sympathy for this guy, and I stopped to ask why. I live in Chicago and I see the homeless every day, and I know it's a problem and I wish I could fix it but I don't know how, and giving a dollar to every person I pass would actually start to have a hefty toll ($20+/day or more, easily.) So since moving to the city I made it a blanket rule not to give hand-outs in that form. But because this guy keeps a blog, because he is articulate and just sounds like another guy, easily could be me, because he still has his voice, I'm almost tempted to send him a couple hundred dollars over paypal. I haven't yet, but the temptation is there. Just because I can hear his story instead of just see him sitting on a sidewalk. It makes it so much harder to walk by. I do wish I knew more about how it happened. I always wonder that. I usually think there must have been some bad choices made along the way. Not that anyone's free of bad choices. But, why did he instantly become homeless after his mother sold the house? Why didn't he have any savings at that age? Why didn't he have any old friends who would take him in to help him out? I know not everyone is so fortunate as to have those things, of course, but still I wonder how it happens.

telesilla 10y ago
Having a voice is what makes the author distinct in these kinds of stories - he can speak and therefore act for himself. Thus we believe that any charity provided would have result. A good concept for this is "subaltern" which refers to being "rendered without agency by social status". The author is not subaltern and therefore we have hope for him, he is not completely outside the social system we inhabit ourselves. So you could send him $100 and realistically have the expectation that this will have value, as opposed to giving $100 to a man on the street and having the expectation that it will only be a temporary reprieve, or even worsen the situation through short-term spending choices. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaltern_(postcolonialism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaltern_(postcolonialism)
mgkimsal 10y ago
I don't know Neil well, but he did speak twice at my conference several years ago (2010 and 2012). In 2012, he was walking with a cane, and had had a stroke between those two times I met him. Still in good spirits, but was definitely a little physically slower. I'm pretty sure there's more to the back story that led up to this, and I've encouraged him to write more about this at some point when he's more stable. If I were to guess, based on the few points he's made in writing, there's some family rift going on, and I might also presume that he may have been paying for things for his mother that might have otherwise gone in to savings. He's been through a divorce, which can certainly have a financial toll on anyone, and I think it was a bit later in life, which may be harder to recover from. A late divorce, some health problems, trying to support a family member - all of that may quickly deplete someone's funds. As to the homeless part, I think there's a certain pride involved, and asking for help may be embarrassing, especially to have to involve friends. It may be that many of his local friends would be tied to his mother/family, and may not be as supportive as one might hope. I sent money to paypal, but it's frozen, and I'm wondering if I can reverse it and senf via GFM and he'll get access faster. Hrmmm....
- capote 10y ago
  I always have to wonder why people don't work at least minimum wage jobs, to solve the base problems like hunger. I apologize if I'm missing something or if I seem really ignorant. Actually, I realize I am totally ignorant in this respect. I've never worked a job outside of programming, so I don't know—is it very difficult for some people to get 'normal' jobs? Is it mostly people with some kind of issue or disability that affects their ability to get a job who wind up like this? Are there not as many minimum-wage, or non-professional (or something) jobs out there as I think there are? I realize once you get to a certain level it becomes really tough to recover, but when you're on your way, and savings are going, shouldn't you be looking around for any way to earn some cash?
  - SolaceQuantum 10y ago
    Being homeless and getting a job makes it very difficult, almost impossible. Where are you gonna keep a nice suit? Where are you going to get shaving materials? Make-up? Do your hair? Even if you got the job, where will they send your checks? What if you don't have official documentation (birth certidicate, social security, etc) because you're homeless? How would you get around if public transport is unreliable? And even if you could request them, where would the gov't send the documentation? Where would you do your taxes or anything? Where are you going to get enough time on the internet to submit hundreds of applications? Or where are you going to print resumes to hand them out? Being homeless makes the basics of getting a minimum wage job a near insurmountable task for many.
    - capote 10y ago
      I suppose ther person at hand and many others had things happen so unexpectedly and quickly that he might not have had time to mobilize all these requirements for a job. It bothers me that a handful of these problems seem possible to be easily solved with very little tax money. A place to send checks/ids (free PO boxes with an address for the homeless) a place to help get documentation and stuff... Do shelters provide basic makings for a shower and shave? Even internet access with available hardware, since it's more and more possible to do everything on the internet, would be reasonable.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
IkmoIkmo 10y ago
Well a big part of homelessness is substance abuse and mental issues. I know a whole bunch of people who've been homeless, sometimes for up to a year sleeping on the streets. But they'd eventually find their way and move on. In the developed world, there's so many programmes. They're not fun, don't get me wrong. For example you can get a bed, a meal and a shower, but you have curfew at 8pm to reserve a spot and you have to spend the night with a bunch of strangers, not all of whom you'd want to hang out with, and then you get thrown out at 8 in the morning. None of that is enjoyable, but you can do it. Then you can apply for a home, you can apply for a free public transport pass, and you can pretty easily get minimum wage jobs. None of those are great, but e.g. in the Netherlands minimum wage is about $1700, and you get 1 month of mandatory, by law, of holidays per year working full-time, in which you get your salary. This is liveable for a person without children, and combined with all the different programs it's impossible to not live a decent life. But that's for an ordinary person. If you have a gambling addiction, a substance addiction or a mental issue, none of that matters. You could squander a $10k salary, or have days when you're too scared to go shopping for groceries. Short-term homelessness is very solvable, I've got friends who've gone through it. Long-term usually is much tricker because you're not dealing with a 'normal' rational human being. These people simply need help, lots of it. It's not a matter of giving a person a job, clothing, a home, because they can't function, none of that helps. They need professional help, and the resources for that aren't being spent. Instead resources are largely spent on keeping people alive. Of course there are tons of exceptions. I've got a family member for example who was homeless and was really stuck due to a lack of programs available to get him back on his feet. In the end he was 'saved' by the grace of a total stranger, given a place to sleep, food, shower etc and support in becoming self-sufficient. He was mentally fine, educated etc, but ran into one of those 1 in a million odds that destroy your life. And the stranger helped him out. But he's very much the exception. Most are like another family member I had who simply had substance abuse issues. We took him in over and over, got him totally setup after 1-2 years of homelessness. And he'd be right there with us looking handsome and sharp and jolly, nicely clothed and cleaned up, and he'd be sharp as a knife talking about politics. Everyday we'd give him a few bucks for some cigs and a newspaper and stuff, and have him eat all his meals with us and sleep with us. And then 3 weeks later he'd be gone, and we'd spent months on the streets just walking around asking people if they'd seen him. Finally 1-2 years later we'd find him and take him in again and it was the same story, every 1-2 years it'd repeat. But he just couldn't live that life and always fled. In the end he'd be gone again and we went looking once more, but this time he died on the streets, we don't know how. There's nothing you can do for him but get him professional help to deal with substance/mental health issues. I suspect most long-term homelessness is like that. It's always so hard for me to decide which it is... I've experienced both, people who you simply can't help, but only professionals can, and people who you can totally lift up and get back on their feet with a little bit of trust and resources.
edpichler 10y ago
You said everything.

telesilla 10y ago

Having a voice is what makes the author distinct in these kinds of stories - he can speak and therefore act for himself. Thus we believe that any charity provided would have result. A good concept for this is "subaltern" which refers to being "rendered without agency by social status". The author is not subaltern and therefore we have hope for him, he is not completely outside the social system we inhabit ourselves. So you could send him $100 and realistically have the expectation that this will have value, as opposed to giving $100 to a man on the street and having the expectation that it will only be a temporary reprieve, or even worsen the situation through short-term spending choices. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaltern_(postcolonialism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaltern_(postcolonialism)

mgkimsal 10y ago

I don't know Neil well, but he did speak twice at my conference several years ago (2010 and 2012). In 2012, he was walking with a cane, and had had a stroke between those two times I met him. Still in good spirits, but was definitely a little physically slower. I'm pretty sure there's more to the back story that led up to this, and I've encouraged him to write more about this at some point when he's more stable. If I were to guess, based on the few points he's made in writing, there's some family rift going on, and I might also presume that he may have been paying for things for his mother that might have otherwise gone in to savings. He's been through a divorce, which can certainly have a financial toll on anyone, and I think it was a bit later in life, which may be harder to recover from. A late divorce, some health problems, trying to support a family member - all of that may quickly deplete someone's funds. As to the homeless part, I think there's a certain pride involved, and asking for help may be embarrassing, especially to have to involve friends. It may be that many of his local friends would be tied to his mother/family, and may not be as supportive as one might hope. I sent money to paypal, but it's frozen, and I'm wondering if I can reverse it and senf via GFM and he'll get access faster. Hrmmm....

capote 10y ago
I always have to wonder why people don't work at least minimum wage jobs, to solve the base problems like hunger. I apologize if I'm missing something or if I seem really ignorant. Actually, I realize I am totally ignorant in this respect. I've never worked a job outside of programming, so I don't know—is it very difficult for some people to get 'normal' jobs? Is it mostly people with some kind of issue or disability that affects their ability to get a job who wind up like this? Are there not as many minimum-wage, or non-professional (or something) jobs out there as I think there are? I realize once you get to a certain level it becomes really tough to recover, but when you're on your way, and savings are going, shouldn't you be looking around for any way to earn some cash?
- SolaceQuantum 10y ago
  Being homeless and getting a job makes it very difficult, almost impossible. Where are you gonna keep a nice suit? Where are you going to get shaving materials? Make-up? Do your hair? Even if you got the job, where will they send your checks? What if you don't have official documentation (birth certidicate, social security, etc) because you're homeless? How would you get around if public transport is unreliable? And even if you could request them, where would the gov't send the documentation? Where would you do your taxes or anything? Where are you going to get enough time on the internet to submit hundreds of applications? Or where are you going to print resumes to hand them out? Being homeless makes the basics of getting a minimum wage job a near insurmountable task for many.
  - capote 10y ago
    I suppose ther person at hand and many others had things happen so unexpectedly and quickly that he might not have had time to mobilize all these requirements for a job. It bothers me that a handful of these problems seem possible to be easily solved with very little tax money. A place to send checks/ids (free PO boxes with an address for the homeless) a place to help get documentation and stuff... Do shelters provide basic makings for a shower and shave? Even internet access with available hardware, since it's more and more possible to do everything on the internet, would be reasonable.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

IkmoIkmo 10y ago

Well a big part of homelessness is substance abuse and mental issues. I know a whole bunch of people who've been homeless, sometimes for up to a year sleeping on the streets. But they'd eventually find their way and move on. In the developed world, there's so many programmes. They're not fun, don't get me wrong. For example you can get a bed, a meal and a shower, but you have curfew at 8pm to reserve a spot and you have to spend the night with a bunch of strangers, not all of whom you'd want to hang out with, and then you get thrown out at 8 in the morning. None of that is enjoyable, but you can do it. Then you can apply for a home, you can apply for a free public transport pass, and you can pretty easily get minimum wage jobs. None of those are great, but e.g. in the Netherlands minimum wage is about $1700, and you get 1 month of mandatory, by law, of holidays per year working full-time, in which you get your salary. This is liveable for a person without children, and combined with all the different programs it's impossible to not live a decent life. But that's for an ordinary person. If you have a gambling addiction, a substance addiction or a mental issue, none of that matters. You could squander a $10k salary, or have days when you're too scared to go shopping for groceries. Short-term homelessness is very solvable, I've got friends who've gone through it. Long-term usually is much tricker because you're not dealing with a 'normal' rational human being. These people simply need help, lots of it. It's not a matter of giving a person a job, clothing, a home, because they can't function, none of that helps. They need professional help, and the resources for that aren't being spent. Instead resources are largely spent on keeping people alive. Of course there are tons of exceptions. I've got a family member for example who was homeless and was really stuck due to a lack of programs available to get him back on his feet. In the end he was 'saved' by the grace of a total stranger, given a place to sleep, food, shower etc and support in becoming self-sufficient. He was mentally fine, educated etc, but ran into one of those 1 in a million odds that destroy your life. And the stranger helped him out. But he's very much the exception. Most are like another family member I had who simply had substance abuse issues. We took him in over and over, got him totally setup after 1-2 years of homelessness. And he'd be right there with us looking handsome and sharp and jolly, nicely clothed and cleaned up, and he'd be sharp as a knife talking about politics. Everyday we'd give him a few bucks for some cigs and a newspaper and stuff, and have him eat all his meals with us and sleep with us. And then 3 weeks later he'd be gone, and we'd spent months on the streets just walking around asking people if they'd seen him. Finally 1-2 years later we'd find him and take him in again and it was the same story, every 1-2 years it'd repeat. But he just couldn't live that life and always fled. In the end he'd be gone again and we went looking once more, but this time he died on the streets, we don't know how. There's nothing you can do for him but get him professional help to deal with substance/mental health issues. I suspect most long-term homelessness is like that. It's always so hard for me to decide which it is... I've experienced both, people who you simply can't help, but only professionals can, and people who you can totally lift up and get back on their feet with a little bit of trust and resources.

edpichler 10y ago

You said everything.