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People will downvote and claim constructive comments are non-constructuve. People will even get the moderator to remove your comments and the moderator may mak

People will downvote and claim constructive comments are non-constructuve. People will even get the moderator to remove your comments and the moderator may make claims that your comments are "off-topic" if too many downmodders attach to your comment. The moderator will even alter text you post without notice. HN is not a serious discussion forum, but a marketing exercise for a VC fund.

hartpuff 10y ago
I just checked the first page of your comments and there seems to be some strange examples of inane/non-constructive downvoting. (I've seen threads where some of the wackiest, most inexplicable downvoting is going on, I almost wonder if it's the site deliberately trying to stir up activity/controversy.) In this thread it's becoming quite pathetic and ridiculous that people are unable to explain or back up the point they have made when I ask, and yet I get downvoted. On every post. This one will be no exception. (Edit: and it wasn't.) I assumed this was a serious place, and liked the idea of rules to keep a civil and theoretically high quality discussion, but the abuse of downvoting by infantile people just destroys it.
- ferrari8608 10y ago
  Same thing happened to Reddit. It was kind of inevitable that it would happen here, where many HN users are likely also Reddit users. Disagree button makes no sense when we already have a flag button.
  - hartpuff 10y ago
    I agree; I hate the concept of downvoting. It's purely negative, which this site claims to discourage, it's completely mindless - why bother forming a cogent rebuttal to something you disagree with when you can lazily (and cowardly, without any risk of having your fragile beliefs challenged back) click a down arrow instead - and it disfavours minority (potentially interesting or controversial) points of view.
    - ferrari8608 10y ago
      You might be interested in Voat.co. That is the basic mindset of its comparitively small user base. Downvoting is typically reserved for the truly shit posts. There is a lot of crude content, but the site makes it easy to filter that out if you so choose.
      - hartpuff 10y ago
        Thanks. I had vaguely heard of Voat before, but for some reason thought it was a script for self-hosted Reddit style sites. dang, I assume you meant stop bickering, but if you absolutely mean no more posts, sorry for this. It will probably be the last anyway. I'm just curious, since you (ferrari) and anyone else still reading this have more knowledge or experience about this, has any site, or even HN, ever tried making the usernames people who upvote and downvote publicly visible? I think people would put more thought into what they up or (especially) downvote if they could not 'hide', and their usernames were attached to it. Likewise, if voting had a 'cost', say, 1 karma to upvote and 1 or 2 karma to downvote.
        jsprogrammer 10y ago
        HN does not publicly publish a downmod feed. I have asked multiple times to be linked to it, but I am always refused. A top poster with privilege, tptacek, claimed on a detached (by dang) thread that seeing who downmods me is "really none of [my] business"[0]. I would guess the same applies to you. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10955220 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10955220 [Still don't get how that comment was "off-topic"]
- jsprogrammer 10y ago
  One problem is the severe rate-limiting. I don't think downmods get rate-limited (I rarely downmod), so someone could downmod (which is not undoable), write up a response and get rate-limited, and never follow through with posting after their limit is up.
- dang 10y ago
  You're probably getting downvoted because this subthread is painfully off-topic and breaks the HN guidelines, which contain not one but two rules asking people not to go on about downvotes. They're at the bottom, where they belong: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - hartpuff 10y ago
    Every post I made has been downvoted, and the edits that mention downvoting obviously came after I was downvoted. Some downvoted posts don't mention downvoting at all. Two are downvoted for asking someone to clarify their argument and for rebutting someone else's incorrect point. Or they're downvoted because some people simply downvoted every post I made, because I made it. I'm mostly being downvoted by people who downvote opinions they don't agree with, or people they don't like, just as other people are in this thread, and which happens in other threads all the time. > https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > Avoid gratuitous negativity. How is using what is literally a negative arrow on posts or posters you don't like/agree with anything but gratuitous negativity? > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument How is lazily pressing a down arrow replying to the argument? > it makes boring reading. It makes boring reading to see posts all over the place whited out (yet no actual written refutation of the post content) because some people can't tolerate or be bothered to discuss or argue with things they disagree with. If HN is against negativity, then maybe it should not have a button that expresses pure negativity. And if something is being complained about so often there have to be two rules against it, maybe it's time to get rid of the (non-constructive) thing so many people are complaining about. If people want to reward discussions or comments, or have them rise to the top, they can achieve such by pressing the up button (which AFAIK is how it works on the submissions - no downvote). The only reason a downvote is necessary is to provide childish, fragile people a way to 'hide' or 'punish' opinions or people they don't like but are too incapable/lazy to refute. Since I doubt I'm the first person to make these points, and suspect nothing will change after this post, I guess it's deliberate HN policy to pander to such people.
    - DanBC 10y ago
dang 10y ago
> The moderator will even alter text you post without notice. What? Absolutely not. I confess to having edited a typo once or twice but that's it.
- jsprogrammer 10y ago
  I have seen post titles edited without notice (one of mine has been and there is no notice of it [can you tell which one?]). I believe I have seen comments edited (but I don't keep records).
  - jsprogrammer 10y ago
    Who downmods this? Seriously?
    - jsprogrammer 10y ago
      No, really, you can't reply?
      - jsprogrammer 10y ago
        Hello. If you push the downward pointing triangle to the left <------- Could you please reply to this post so that I may see who you are? Edit: Someone is trolling the bottom comments of a 4th page article? lel And at least two people couldn't even be assed to look for what text HN attributes to my account that I did not actually post.
    - hartpuff 10y ago
      Someone/people really proving the points being made about downvoting and the seriousness of this forum. FWIW, I upvoted because I think the downvotes are abusive (particularly the one you object to here). Did not seem to make any difference though.
    - dang 10y ago
      Would you please stop breaking the HN guidelines? They explicitly ask you not to go on about downvotes. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

hartpuff 10y ago

I just checked the first page of your comments and there seems to be some strange examples of inane/non-constructive downvoting. (I've seen threads where some of the wackiest, most inexplicable downvoting is going on, I almost wonder if it's the site deliberately trying to stir up activity/controversy.) In this thread it's becoming quite pathetic and ridiculous that people are unable to explain or back up the point they have made when I ask, and yet I get downvoted. On every post. This one will be no exception. (Edit: and it wasn't.) I assumed this was a serious place, and liked the idea of rules to keep a civil and theoretically high quality discussion, but the abuse of downvoting by infantile people just destroys it.

ferrari8608 10y ago
Same thing happened to Reddit. It was kind of inevitable that it would happen here, where many HN users are likely also Reddit users. Disagree button makes no sense when we already have a flag button.
- hartpuff 10y ago
  I agree; I hate the concept of downvoting. It's purely negative, which this site claims to discourage, it's completely mindless - why bother forming a cogent rebuttal to something you disagree with when you can lazily (and cowardly, without any risk of having your fragile beliefs challenged back) click a down arrow instead - and it disfavours minority (potentially interesting or controversial) points of view.
  - ferrari8608 10y ago
    You might be interested in Voat.co. That is the basic mindset of its comparitively small user base. Downvoting is typically reserved for the truly shit posts. There is a lot of crude content, but the site makes it easy to filter that out if you so choose.
    - hartpuff 10y ago
      Thanks. I had vaguely heard of Voat before, but for some reason thought it was a script for self-hosted Reddit style sites. dang, I assume you meant stop bickering, but if you absolutely mean no more posts, sorry for this. It will probably be the last anyway. I'm just curious, since you (ferrari) and anyone else still reading this have more knowledge or experience about this, has any site, or even HN, ever tried making the usernames people who upvote and downvote publicly visible? I think people would put more thought into what they up or (especially) downvote if they could not 'hide', and their usernames were attached to it. Likewise, if voting had a 'cost', say, 1 karma to upvote and 1 or 2 karma to downvote.
      - jsprogrammer 10y ago
        HN does not publicly publish a downmod feed. I have asked multiple times to be linked to it, but I am always refused. A top poster with privilege, tptacek, claimed on a detached (by dang) thread that seeing who downmods me is "really none of [my] business"[0]. I would guess the same applies to you. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10955220 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10955220 [Still don't get how that comment was "off-topic"]
jsprogrammer 10y ago
One problem is the severe rate-limiting. I don't think downmods get rate-limited (I rarely downmod), so someone could downmod (which is not undoable), write up a response and get rate-limited, and never follow through with posting after their limit is up.
dang 10y ago
You're probably getting downvoted because this subthread is painfully off-topic and breaks the HN guidelines, which contain not one but two rules asking people not to go on about downvotes. They're at the bottom, where they belong: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- hartpuff 10y ago
  Every post I made has been downvoted, and the edits that mention downvoting obviously came after I was downvoted. Some downvoted posts don't mention downvoting at all. Two are downvoted for asking someone to clarify their argument and for rebutting someone else's incorrect point. Or they're downvoted because some people simply downvoted every post I made, because I made it. I'm mostly being downvoted by people who downvote opinions they don't agree with, or people they don't like, just as other people are in this thread, and which happens in other threads all the time. > https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > Avoid gratuitous negativity. How is using what is literally a negative arrow on posts or posters you don't like/agree with anything but gratuitous negativity? > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument How is lazily pressing a down arrow replying to the argument? > it makes boring reading. It makes boring reading to see posts all over the place whited out (yet no actual written refutation of the post content) because some people can't tolerate or be bothered to discuss or argue with things they disagree with. If HN is against negativity, then maybe it should not have a button that expresses pure negativity. And if something is being complained about so often there have to be two rules against it, maybe it's time to get rid of the (non-constructive) thing so many people are complaining about. If people want to reward discussions or comments, or have them rise to the top, they can achieve such by pressing the up button (which AFAIK is how it works on the submissions - no downvote). The only reason a downvote is necessary is to provide childish, fragile people a way to 'hide' or 'punish' opinions or people they don't like but are too incapable/lazy to refute. Since I doubt I'm the first person to make these points, and suspect nothing will change after this post, I guess it's deliberate HN policy to pander to such people.
  - DanBC 10y ago

dang 10y ago

> The moderator will even alter text you post without notice. What? Absolutely not. I confess to having edited a typo once or twice but that's it.

jsprogrammer 10y ago
I have seen post titles edited without notice (one of mine has been and there is no notice of it [can you tell which one?]). I believe I have seen comments edited (but I don't keep records).
- jsprogrammer 10y ago
  Who downmods this? Seriously?
  - jsprogrammer 10y ago
    No, really, you can't reply?
    - jsprogrammer 10y ago
      Hello. If you push the downward pointing triangle to the left <------- Could you please reply to this post so that I may see who you are? Edit: Someone is trolling the bottom comments of a 4th page article? lel And at least two people couldn't even be assed to look for what text HN attributes to my account that I did not actually post.
  - hartpuff 10y ago
    Someone/people really proving the points being made about downvoting and the seriousness of this forum. FWIW, I upvoted because I think the downvotes are abusive (particularly the one you object to here). Did not seem to make any difference though.
  - dang 10y ago
    Would you please stop breaking the HN guidelines? They explicitly ask you not to go on about downvotes. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html