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> he's being downvoted both because HN users disagree Which is probably the usual reason people downvote. And it's a shit reason. Downvoting (ie, trying to bu

> he's being downvoted both because HN users disagree Which is probably the usual reason people downvote. And it's a shit reason. Downvoting (ie, trying to bury or hide a post) because someone says sumfing u don't wike is pathetic and childish; if you disagree either argue against it or move on. Downvotes (if they have to exist) should be reserved for posts that are objectively non-constructive (as in posts that don't make any argument, whether you agree with it or not, or add anything to a discussion).

dragonwriter 10y ago
> objectively non-constructive "non-constructive" is always subjective, so this is an oxymoron.
- hartpuff 10y ago
  (as in posts that don't make any argument, whether you agree with it or not, or add anything to a discussion) Let's say someone here posts "fuck off" or "you're an idiot". Please explain how that can be interpreted as constructive to a discussion here. Edit: Wow, people who childishly downvote certainly don't like to be called out about their childish downvoting. :)
  - jsprogrammer 10y ago
    People will downvote and claim constructive comments are non-constructuve. People will even get the moderator to remove your comments and the moderator may make claims that your comments are "off-topic" if too many downmodders attach to your comment. The moderator will even alter text you post without notice. HN is not a serious discussion forum, but a marketing exercise for a VC fund.
    - hartpuff 10y ago
      I just checked the first page of your comments and there seems to be some strange examples of inane/non-constructive downvoting. (I've seen threads where some of the wackiest, most inexplicable downvoting is going on, I almost wonder if it's the site deliberately trying to stir up activity/controversy.) In this thread it's becoming quite pathetic and ridiculous that people are unable to explain or back up the point they have made when I ask, and yet I get downvoted. On every post. This one will be no exception. (Edit: and it wasn't.) I assumed this was a serious place, and liked the idea of rules to keep a civil and theoretically high quality discussion, but the abuse of downvoting by infantile people just destroys it.
      - ferrari8608 10y ago
        Same thing happened to Reddit. It was kind of inevitable that it would happen here, where many HN users are likely also Reddit users. Disagree button makes no sense when we already have a flag button.
        hartpuff 10y ago
        I agree; I hate the concept of downvoting. It's purely negative, which this site claims to discourage, it's completely mindless - why bother forming a cogent rebuttal to something you disagree with when you can lazily (and cowardly, without any risk of having your fragile beliefs challenged back) click a down arrow instead - and it disfavours minority (potentially interesting or controversial) points of view.
        ferrari8608 10y ago
        You might be interested in Voat.co. That is the basic mindset of its comparitively small user base. Downvoting is typically reserved for the truly shit posts. There is a lot of crude content, but the site makes it easy to filter that out if you so choose.
        hartpuff 10y ago
        Thanks. I had vaguely heard of Voat before, but for some reason thought it was a script for self-hosted Reddit style sites. dang, I assume you meant stop bickering, but if you absolutely mean no more posts, sorry for this. It will probably be the last anyway. I'm just curious, since you (ferrari) and anyone else still reading this have more knowledge or experience about this, has any site, or even HN, ever tried making the usernames people who upvote and downvote publicly visible? I think people would put more thought into what they up or (especially) downvote if they could not 'hide', and their usernames were attached to it. Likewise, if voting had a 'cost', say, 1 karma to upvote and 1 or 2 karma to downvote.
        jsprogrammer 10y ago
    - dang 10y ago
      > The moderator will even alter text you post without notice. What? Absolutely not. I confess to having edited a typo once or twice but that's it.
      - jsprogrammer 10y ago
        I have seen post titles edited without notice (one of mine has been and there is no notice of it [can you tell which one?]). I believe I have seen comments edited (but I don't keep records).
        jsprogrammer 10y ago
        Who downmods this? Seriously?
        jsprogrammer 10y ago
        No, really, you can't reply?
        jsprogrammer 10y ago
        Hello. If you push the downward pointing triangle to the left <------- Could you please reply to this post so that I may see who you are? Edit: Someone is trolling the bottom comments of a 4th page article? lel And at least two people couldn't even be assed to look for what text HN attributes to my account that I did not actually post.
        hartpuff 10y ago
        Someone/people really proving the points being made about downvoting and the seriousness of this forum. FWIW, I upvoted because I think the downvotes are abusive (particularly the one you object to here). Did not seem to make any difference though.
        dang 10y ago
        Would you please stop breaking the HN guidelines? They explicitly ask you not to go on about downvotes. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Nadya 10y ago
>Which is probably the usual reason people downvote. And it's a shit reason. In a matter of public opinion about whether or not this would interest children in science - the votes are showing more people think it would than wouldn't. I also have a feeling more downvotes are coming for trying to pass off their (minority) opinion as some sort of established fact that one could reason themselves into, when most people who have reasoned with themselves came to the opposite conclusion. If you take that to the logical conclusion: they're insulting other people's intelligence for reaching the opposite conclusion. Which, last I checked, is not proper discourse on HN and routinely gets downvoted along with any other name calling.
- hartpuff 10y ago
  I honestly can't tell if this is meant to be serious or not. It's not proper discourse on HN, or it insults people's intelligence, to have a minority opinion? What?

dragonwriter 10y ago

> objectively non-constructive "non-constructive" is always subjective, so this is an oxymoron.

hartpuff 10y ago
(as in posts that don't make any argument, whether you agree with it or not, or add anything to a discussion) Let's say someone here posts "fuck off" or "you're an idiot". Please explain how that can be interpreted as constructive to a discussion here. Edit: Wow, people who childishly downvote certainly don't like to be called out about their childish downvoting. :)
- jsprogrammer 10y ago
  People will downvote and claim constructive comments are non-constructuve. People will even get the moderator to remove your comments and the moderator may make claims that your comments are "off-topic" if too many downmodders attach to your comment. The moderator will even alter text you post without notice. HN is not a serious discussion forum, but a marketing exercise for a VC fund.
  - hartpuff 10y ago
    I just checked the first page of your comments and there seems to be some strange examples of inane/non-constructive downvoting. (I've seen threads where some of the wackiest, most inexplicable downvoting is going on, I almost wonder if it's the site deliberately trying to stir up activity/controversy.) In this thread it's becoming quite pathetic and ridiculous that people are unable to explain or back up the point they have made when I ask, and yet I get downvoted. On every post. This one will be no exception. (Edit: and it wasn't.) I assumed this was a serious place, and liked the idea of rules to keep a civil and theoretically high quality discussion, but the abuse of downvoting by infantile people just destroys it.
    - ferrari8608 10y ago
      Same thing happened to Reddit. It was kind of inevitable that it would happen here, where many HN users are likely also Reddit users. Disagree button makes no sense when we already have a flag button.
      - hartpuff 10y ago
        I agree; I hate the concept of downvoting. It's purely negative, which this site claims to discourage, it's completely mindless - why bother forming a cogent rebuttal to something you disagree with when you can lazily (and cowardly, without any risk of having your fragile beliefs challenged back) click a down arrow instead - and it disfavours minority (potentially interesting or controversial) points of view.
        ferrari8608 10y ago
        You might be interested in Voat.co. That is the basic mindset of its comparitively small user base. Downvoting is typically reserved for the truly shit posts. There is a lot of crude content, but the site makes it easy to filter that out if you so choose.
        hartpuff 10y ago
        Thanks. I had vaguely heard of Voat before, but for some reason thought it was a script for self-hosted Reddit style sites. dang, I assume you meant stop bickering, but if you absolutely mean no more posts, sorry for this. It will probably be the last anyway. I'm just curious, since you (ferrari) and anyone else still reading this have more knowledge or experience about this, has any site, or even HN, ever tried making the usernames people who upvote and downvote publicly visible? I think people would put more thought into what they up or (especially) downvote if they could not 'hide', and their usernames were attached to it. Likewise, if voting had a 'cost', say, 1 karma to upvote and 1 or 2 karma to downvote.
        jsprogrammer 10y ago
  - dang 10y ago
    > The moderator will even alter text you post without notice. What? Absolutely not. I confess to having edited a typo once or twice but that's it.
    - jsprogrammer 10y ago
      I have seen post titles edited without notice (one of mine has been and there is no notice of it [can you tell which one?]). I believe I have seen comments edited (but I don't keep records).
      - jsprogrammer 10y ago
        Who downmods this? Seriously?
        jsprogrammer 10y ago
        No, really, you can't reply?
        jsprogrammer 10y ago
        Hello. If you push the downward pointing triangle to the left <------- Could you please reply to this post so that I may see who you are? Edit: Someone is trolling the bottom comments of a 4th page article? lel And at least two people couldn't even be assed to look for what text HN attributes to my account that I did not actually post.
        hartpuff 10y ago
        Someone/people really proving the points being made about downvoting and the seriousness of this forum. FWIW, I upvoted because I think the downvotes are abusive (particularly the one you object to here). Did not seem to make any difference though.
        dang 10y ago
        Would you please stop breaking the HN guidelines? They explicitly ask you not to go on about downvotes. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Nadya 10y ago

>Which is probably the usual reason people downvote. And it's a shit reason. In a matter of public opinion about whether or not this would interest children in science - the votes are showing more people think it would than wouldn't. I also have a feeling more downvotes are coming for trying to pass off their (minority) opinion as some sort of established fact that one could reason themselves into, when most people who have reasoned with themselves came to the opposite conclusion. If you take that to the logical conclusion: they're insulting other people's intelligence for reaching the opposite conclusion. Which, last I checked, is not proper discourse on HN and routinely gets downvoted along with any other name calling.

hartpuff 10y ago
I honestly can't tell if this is meant to be serious or not. It's not proper discourse on HN, or it insults people's intelligence, to have a minority opinion? What?