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That doesn't define the portability of the language though, that only discusses typical programs. They aren't the same thing at all. The portability of a langu

That doesn't define the portability of the language though, that only discusses typical programs. They aren't the same thing at all. The portability of a language is best understood as how difficult/expensive it is to port a conforming program written in the language in question. It's easy to confuse the two. But a discussion based on that confusion is not very useful, as you are discovering.

lmm 10y ago
> The portability of a language is best understood as how difficult/expensive it is to port a conforming program written in the language in question. What proportion of the things that are referred to in ordinary, everyday language as "C programs" would you estimate are conforming? Maybe 0.01%? If I'd meant "conforming C code" I would've said "conforming C code". Writing conforming C is not a realistic choice for most use cases. E.g. there are very few experienced conforming C developers available.
- jjnoakes 10y ago
  I don't think any of your assertions are true at all. There are lots of conforming C programs (just look at the huge list of software which compiles on a huge list of platforms). There are tons of experienced C developers. Who do you think writes all of that conforming software? And none of this is related to the topic at all. If you really can't get your head around the simple idea that the portability of the language is different than the portability of some arbitrary program written in the language, then just look at it this way: If you want to write a program in a language, and you pick C, your program will run on more platforms than if you pick Python. This is true, regardless of any other argument you might raise, simply because Python won't run on a platform until C runs on that platform (since Python is written in C). We've been over this. Ad nauseum. Please stop trolling.
  - lmm 10y ago
    > There are lots of conforming C programs (just look at the huge list of software which compiles on a huge list of platforms). And look at how much of that list breaks when a new version of GCC introduces a minor improvement in optimization. > just look at it this way: If you want to write a program in a language, and you pick C, your program will run on more platforms than if you pick Python. That is the question to ask. And your answer simply isn't true. It will (in the overwhelmingly likely case) run on more platforms if you pick Python. Certainly if you hold costs constant, which is surely the only way to compare. If you're willing to spend unlimited time and effort on portability then your C program will run everywhere, but so will your Python program (since you can just port the Python interpreter). > This is true, regardless of any other argument you might raise, simply because Python won't run on a platform until C runs on that platform (since Python is written in C). Not actually true (Jython exists and could run on platforms that don't run C), but it doesn't matter. It is overwhelmingly likely that the Python interpreter will run on more platforms than your C program will. > We've been over this. Ad nauseum. Please stop trolling. I'm not trolling. Maybe you are?

lmm 10y ago

> The portability of a language is best understood as how difficult/expensive it is to port a conforming program written in the language in question. What proportion of the things that are referred to in ordinary, everyday language as "C programs" would you estimate are conforming? Maybe 0.01%? If I'd meant "conforming C code" I would've said "conforming C code". Writing conforming C is not a realistic choice for most use cases. E.g. there are very few experienced conforming C developers available.

jjnoakes 10y ago
I don't think any of your assertions are true at all. There are lots of conforming C programs (just look at the huge list of software which compiles on a huge list of platforms). There are tons of experienced C developers. Who do you think writes all of that conforming software? And none of this is related to the topic at all. If you really can't get your head around the simple idea that the portability of the language is different than the portability of some arbitrary program written in the language, then just look at it this way: If you want to write a program in a language, and you pick C, your program will run on more platforms than if you pick Python. This is true, regardless of any other argument you might raise, simply because Python won't run on a platform until C runs on that platform (since Python is written in C). We've been over this. Ad nauseum. Please stop trolling.
- lmm 10y ago
  > There are lots of conforming C programs (just look at the huge list of software which compiles on a huge list of platforms). And look at how much of that list breaks when a new version of GCC introduces a minor improvement in optimization. > just look at it this way: If you want to write a program in a language, and you pick C, your program will run on more platforms than if you pick Python. That is the question to ask. And your answer simply isn't true. It will (in the overwhelmingly likely case) run on more platforms if you pick Python. Certainly if you hold costs constant, which is surely the only way to compare. If you're willing to spend unlimited time and effort on portability then your C program will run everywhere, but so will your Python program (since you can just port the Python interpreter). > This is true, regardless of any other argument you might raise, simply because Python won't run on a platform until C runs on that platform (since Python is written in C). Not actually true (Jython exists and could run on platforms that don't run C), but it doesn't matter. It is overwhelmingly likely that the Python interpreter will run on more platforms than your C program will. > We've been over this. Ad nauseum. Please stop trolling. I'm not trolling. Maybe you are?