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I think its offensive to have nationalistic robot-like-chanting being defended as an okay thing. Its the sort of thing you expect people to do at rallies or cu

I think its offensive to have nationalistic robot-like-chanting being defended as an okay thing. Its the sort of thing you expect people to do at rallies or cult gatherings, and from an outsider perspective it always tarnishes what is otherwise a very rational event, because its an implied irrational, collective mindset. As a non-American, I wish it'd stop - its a major turnoff for these events, and I switch away when it starts up. I know, I know - Americans have a right to be proud, and they do. But expressing it with a cult-like mechanism that is, essentially "our group is great, nobody else can/has done this" is just .. revolting. I say this, knowing full well I'm going to get down voted for it, but I really do wish you Americans would think about it from the other side of your dark mirror. Can't we come up with a chant that includes all of humanity? After all, America wouldn't be the nation it is today without all other nations on Earth, including the ones that America has invaded, and destroyed completely, wantonly, for decades. EDIT: Feel how this post detracts from the main article, and is a distraction from the feel-goodness of SpaceX's accomplishments? For us non-Americans, thats how the USA-cult chant feels - a total distraction. I wish I could down vote the chanting when I see it on TV, too.

mineshaftgap 11y ago
America is growing weary of butt hurt euro-whiners. Soon Europe will pay for its own defense or reap the whirlwind. Also Musk is extremely patriotic so piss off and do something worthy in EU.
david-given 11y ago
You're getting downvoted into oblivion, but yeah, that's basically how I feel. Cultural differences, I'm sure, because I'm not USian; but every time I see it on the youtube videos it makes me deeply uncomfortable.
- fit2rule 11y ago
  I knew I would get down voted, because the collective group-think mindset is very strong around this particular issue, and Americans have been programmed to think its acceptable to make these kind of cult-chants when they do something special. It is a special event - most definitely - but the cult-chant ruins it. Very obnoxious.
  - TulliusCicero 11y ago
    Honestly you just sound kind of brittle if others chanting USA! ruins something for you. Sometimes the USA chant is overdone but in this case I think it's awesome.
    - fit2rule 11y ago
      To each their own. What starts as an awesome technological event, ends with thought-stopping cult-like behavior. I guess the two are entwined, eternally, throughout human culture, so I shouldn't be surprised ..
- Kratisto 11y ago
  I'm an American, and I'm just wondering why it makes you uncomfortable? Does chanting at sporting events make you uncomfortable as well? edit: Reply button showed up finally
  - david-given 11y ago
    I'm fine about sporting events, because it's about something that doesn't matter --- the whole point of sport is to channel the sex-violence-and-tribalism thing in a safe and relatively controlled fashion. What disturbs me about something like the chanting at SpaceX is that it's something that does matter, and which I feel strongly about. Seeing their great technical achievement turn into exclusionary tribal posturing makes me very sad. I'm sure there's a long way to go before SpaceX fans and STS fans start beating each other up in the street... but it is one step down that path.
  - fit2rule 11y ago
    Its a collective/cult response, is why it makes me uncomfortable. "Everyone else is doing it, so should I", and while its occurring, no other rational thought is occurring. It is a known thought-stopping technique in cults. I also despise it when it happens at sports events. Its just demeaning to whoever doesn't fall in line and start the goose-step.
    - Kratisto 11y ago
      First "and while its occurring, no other rational thought is occurring". I'm not really sure how to respond to that. Of course no rational thought is taking place. It's a celebration. They aren't trying to have a rational discussion. Second "Its just demeaning to whoever doesn't fall in line and start the goose-step". I have never seen anyone that is somewhere people are chanting it and be ridiculed for not joining along. It is completely up to anyone whether they want to participate. I think space exploration/achievement is a very big point of pride for Americans. Ever since the moon landing, everyone has fell in love with the space program. Chanting USA! doesn't mean give up all rational thought and blindly follow the countries leaders. It means a bunch of Americans just did something amazing. I'm glad to be a part of this country that is doing great things. It also doesn't mean go USA fuck Europe. Sure there is a little bit of a competitive undertone, but so what. If SpaceX says look what we did, I dare you guys to do better well then good. Competition is the reason why space programs are where they are. Sorry you don't like how one country likes to celebrate. Luckily everyone is free to do whatever they want.
markvdb 11y ago
"ON! TO! MARS! ON! TO! MARS!". I would sooo much love to hear that chant next time. That would really do justice to this kind of historic event. A chant like this would celebrate progress and claim this for what it is, an accomplishment of/for humanity. After all, space travel does focus our attention on how we are all humans and on earth. In that context, the below seems at least somewhat relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalism_(politics)#Modern_expression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalism_(politics)#Mo... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_citizenship#World_citizen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_citizenship#World_citiz...
- fit2rule 11y ago
  I completely agree. They should change the chant to exactly as you describe.

mineshaftgap 11y ago

America is growing weary of butt hurt euro-whiners. Soon Europe will pay for its own defense or reap the whirlwind. Also Musk is extremely patriotic so piss off and do something worthy in EU.

david-given 11y ago

You're getting downvoted into oblivion, but yeah, that's basically how I feel. Cultural differences, I'm sure, because I'm not USian; but every time I see it on the youtube videos it makes me deeply uncomfortable.

fit2rule 11y ago
I knew I would get down voted, because the collective group-think mindset is very strong around this particular issue, and Americans have been programmed to think its acceptable to make these kind of cult-chants when they do something special. It is a special event - most definitely - but the cult-chant ruins it. Very obnoxious.
- TulliusCicero 11y ago
  Honestly you just sound kind of brittle if others chanting USA! ruins something for you. Sometimes the USA chant is overdone but in this case I think it's awesome.
  - fit2rule 11y ago
    To each their own. What starts as an awesome technological event, ends with thought-stopping cult-like behavior. I guess the two are entwined, eternally, throughout human culture, so I shouldn't be surprised ..
Kratisto 11y ago
I'm an American, and I'm just wondering why it makes you uncomfortable? Does chanting at sporting events make you uncomfortable as well? edit: Reply button showed up finally
- david-given 11y ago
  I'm fine about sporting events, because it's about something that doesn't matter --- the whole point of sport is to channel the sex-violence-and-tribalism thing in a safe and relatively controlled fashion. What disturbs me about something like the chanting at SpaceX is that it's something that does matter, and which I feel strongly about. Seeing their great technical achievement turn into exclusionary tribal posturing makes me very sad. I'm sure there's a long way to go before SpaceX fans and STS fans start beating each other up in the street... but it is one step down that path.
- fit2rule 11y ago
  Its a collective/cult response, is why it makes me uncomfortable. "Everyone else is doing it, so should I", and while its occurring, no other rational thought is occurring. It is a known thought-stopping technique in cults. I also despise it when it happens at sports events. Its just demeaning to whoever doesn't fall in line and start the goose-step.
  - Kratisto 11y ago
    First "and while its occurring, no other rational thought is occurring". I'm not really sure how to respond to that. Of course no rational thought is taking place. It's a celebration. They aren't trying to have a rational discussion. Second "Its just demeaning to whoever doesn't fall in line and start the goose-step". I have never seen anyone that is somewhere people are chanting it and be ridiculed for not joining along. It is completely up to anyone whether they want to participate. I think space exploration/achievement is a very big point of pride for Americans. Ever since the moon landing, everyone has fell in love with the space program. Chanting USA! doesn't mean give up all rational thought and blindly follow the countries leaders. It means a bunch of Americans just did something amazing. I'm glad to be a part of this country that is doing great things. It also doesn't mean go USA fuck Europe. Sure there is a little bit of a competitive undertone, but so what. If SpaceX says look what we did, I dare you guys to do better well then good. Competition is the reason why space programs are where they are. Sorry you don't like how one country likes to celebrate. Luckily everyone is free to do whatever they want.

markvdb 11y ago

"ON! TO! MARS! ON! TO! MARS!". I would sooo much love to hear that chant next time. That would really do justice to this kind of historic event. A chant like this would celebrate progress and claim this for what it is, an accomplishment of/for humanity. After all, space travel does focus our attention on how we are all humans and on earth. In that context, the below seems at least somewhat relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalism_(politics)#Modern_expression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalism_(politics)#Mo... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_citizenship#World_citizen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_citizenship#World_citiz...

fit2rule 11y ago
I completely agree. They should change the chant to exactly as you describe.