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I don't entirely disagree, but I think that this whole discussion might be missing the underlying issue. I don't think the problem is so much people being price

I don't entirely disagree, but I think that this whole discussion might be missing the underlying issue. I don't think the problem is so much people being priced out of a particular area (not everyone's going to be able to have a large place in Manhattan), but rather that there are certain things people want that cities are the best at providing. People want things like walkable neighborhoods, a close proximity to their workplace, cultural events, public transportation, greater density, etc. I think that if there more areas like this outside of the major cities, this wouldn't be so much of an issue. Fortunately, it seems like (at least in the U.S.) there is a movement to create more city-like suburbs, but this takes time.

ghaff 10y ago
>there are certain things people want that cities are the best at providing The real issue though is that it's not "cities" in the generic that provide all these great things that many people want (while also being relatively safe and having a good choice of employers). It's a relative handful of cities--mostly coastal in the US. There's plenty of affordable housing in Detroit and New Orleans. The numbers tend to bear this out. From what I've seen, there isn't a particular urbanization trend among young people. What there is is somewhat of a migration of college educated young people to a handful of particularly dense cities.
- santaclaus 10y ago
  > It's a relative handful of cities--mostly coastal in the US. There's plenty of affordable housing in Detroit and New Orleans. NOLA is on a coast.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    Well, it's a couple hours from the coast (about like Houston). I lived there. I said that the relative handful of desirable cities are mostly coastal. There are many cities that are less in demand. Many are (unsurprisingly) inland. However, there are also a variety of coastal cities that are not fast growing. [ADD: Mostly in the Southeast although there are also some smaller cities on or near the Pacific Coast in the Northwest like Eugene.]
- Chathamization 10y ago
  Well, this is true, and it's also true that it's only certain areas of certain cities we're talking about as well. I'm living in/near one of the desirable cities that's struggling with issues of affordable housing because of the large influx of new and wealthy residents. And yet, there are still many places in the city where housing is cheap. It's just not desirable because of poor schools, high crime, poor infrastructure, and a lack of interesting places within walking distance. So I agree with you, this talk of cities is misleading. The real issue is that the supply of the kind of places that people want to live in doesn't meet demand, and that these things are extremely inelastic in the short-run (it usually takes years to build up these kinds of neighborhoods).
  - ghaff 10y ago
    You're absolutely right. In the case of Boston for example, while prices are fairly high overall, I'm sure you can buy something in Roxbury or Dorchester for relatively affordable prices. Similarly in New York, I imagine there's affordable housing in Brooklyn--just not in Williamsburg. Even Manhattan probably--above 150th Street or so. Gentrification does happen incrementally. Look at Shoreditch in London. But it does take time and has at least some negative effects in spite of being mostly desirable.
eli_gottlieb 10y ago
>there are certain things people want that cities are the best at providing. Yes, chief among them jobs with living wages.

ghaff 10y ago

>there are certain things people want that cities are the best at providing The real issue though is that it's not "cities" in the generic that provide all these great things that many people want (while also being relatively safe and having a good choice of employers). It's a relative handful of cities--mostly coastal in the US. There's plenty of affordable housing in Detroit and New Orleans. The numbers tend to bear this out. From what I've seen, there isn't a particular urbanization trend among young people. What there is is somewhat of a migration of college educated young people to a handful of particularly dense cities.

santaclaus 10y ago
> It's a relative handful of cities--mostly coastal in the US. There's plenty of affordable housing in Detroit and New Orleans. NOLA is on a coast.
- ghaff 10y ago
  Well, it's a couple hours from the coast (about like Houston). I lived there. I said that the relative handful of desirable cities are mostly coastal. There are many cities that are less in demand. Many are (unsurprisingly) inland. However, there are also a variety of coastal cities that are not fast growing. [ADD: Mostly in the Southeast although there are also some smaller cities on or near the Pacific Coast in the Northwest like Eugene.]
Chathamization 10y ago
Well, this is true, and it's also true that it's only certain areas of certain cities we're talking about as well. I'm living in/near one of the desirable cities that's struggling with issues of affordable housing because of the large influx of new and wealthy residents. And yet, there are still many places in the city where housing is cheap. It's just not desirable because of poor schools, high crime, poor infrastructure, and a lack of interesting places within walking distance. So I agree with you, this talk of cities is misleading. The real issue is that the supply of the kind of places that people want to live in doesn't meet demand, and that these things are extremely inelastic in the short-run (it usually takes years to build up these kinds of neighborhoods).
- ghaff 10y ago
  You're absolutely right. In the case of Boston for example, while prices are fairly high overall, I'm sure you can buy something in Roxbury or Dorchester for relatively affordable prices. Similarly in New York, I imagine there's affordable housing in Brooklyn--just not in Williamsburg. Even Manhattan probably--above 150th Street or so. Gentrification does happen incrementally. Look at Shoreditch in London. But it does take time and has at least some negative effects in spite of being mostly desirable.

eli_gottlieb 10y ago

>there are certain things people want that cities are the best at providing. Yes, chief among them jobs with living wages.