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It's a tribal chant, which is a bit different to having pride. Obviously the SpaceX staff can do whatever they want when they're celebrating a successful launc

by oska 11y ago

It's a tribal chant, which is a bit different to having pride. Obviously the SpaceX staff can do whatever they want when they're celebrating a successful launch and landing. But all non-Americans who are watching and also feeling a lot of pride in what the company has achieved instantly feel alienated when the chant gets going because it's exclusionary. Whether the staff care about this alienation is another matter, but it's real. If you browse the /r/spacex subreddit you constantly see comments about the chant whenever it happens. And that is a community made up of almost total SpaceX supporters. To give maybe a shallow analogy, it's like a group of men achieved something and then celebrated by chanting “Men, Men, Men!”.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
> But all non-Americans who are watching and also feeling a lot of pride in what the company has achieved instantly feel alienated when the chant gets going because it's exclusionary. Yes, it is, and yes, as an non-American I feel alienated. But I suck it up. Because I'm just a supporter. A fanboy, for a lack of better world. In reality, this is not my success, but the success of men and women working there, almost exclusively American. They have the right to chant however they like and I don't see the reason to make a big deal out of a bit of national pride. Not compared to what they're doing. Also Musk, who's the driver of the culture there, doesn't seem very nationalistic, so I'm not worried they'll try to turn this into USA space hegemony.
- patates 11y ago
  I didn't really look it up but it would be hard to believe SpaceX being a strictly American company with 100% American workforce. Hell, even if it were, it would still be troublesome if the company didn't position itself as an American nationalistic company - think about all the stakeholders. Maybe some supporters wouldn't be so passionate and some suppliers wouldn't be so perfectionist if they felt they were there for the success of a group that they are not a member of (Humanity vs citizens of USA). From that perspective, it would be even weird for NASA employees to do this, let alone a private company's.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    I didn't say strictly American, I said they're employing "almost exclusively" Americans. Which logically follows from rocket technology being regulated under ITAR.
    - patates 11y ago
      I wasn't referring to that statement (actually skimmed over it, which is unfortunate because it's an interesting piece of information). Apart from that, my point hopefully is clear.
  - Sir_Cmpwn 11y ago
    SpaceX's rockets are basically intercontinental ballistic missiles being used for benign purposes. So there are legal regulations that make it difficult for them to hire foreigners. So... > I didn't really look it up but it would be hard to believe SpaceX being a strictly American company with 100% American workforce. They're pretty close to that, actually. Disclaimer: I used to work there
- deanCommie 11y ago
  Most people aren't gay. Yet we still consider their feelings when we question hateful language. Most people aren't disabled. Yet every office building in the western world has wheelchair ramps and disabled bathrooms. Why alienate the employees who are working for the good of the Company, and the good of Humanity without considering the benefits for the Country (which is arbitrary and hereditary all too often) with no net benefit? (I highly doubt the USA chants are necessary for cohesion and unity at SpaceX)
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    I don't see how chanting for a group, without any implicit or explicit diminishment of other groups compares to hate speech against sexual minorities. Also, chants are not a company policy, it's what employees spontaneously do in their own private space, which you saw on their own private broadcast. (If we're bringing SJW approach into this, then I think you're advocating the minority (SpaceX employees) should adapt to the random cultural expectations of the entitled majority, or whatever.) If you're saying they should be more considerate, that's fine, but they're free to disregard that opinion. Personally, I refuse to get outraged - outrage is more often than not a problem with the person who choses to indulge it.
    - Inconel 11y ago
      I too find it hard to see how so many have conflated chanting for a group, in this case the USA, as being equivalent to actively admonishing another group. The employees at SpaceX aren't burning the flags of foreign countries or otherwise disrespecting or mocking them, they are simply expressing pride in the nation that many of us view as playing an instrumental part in our success. I also don't know what could be done to remedy the situation, assuming its decided that a remedy is in order. I can assure everyone that to my knowledge the chants aren't at all staged, they happen organically and large numbers of employees participate in them. Again, and I hate to be overly repetitive but I think its worth noting that while I don't partake in the chants myself, if we got word from higher up that this was no longer acceptable behavior I would be extraordinarily pissed. I don't care about the chants either way but the employees here are already sacrificing a lot for this mission, they don't need their spontaneous celebrations micromanaged. The atmosphere during launches here is electric, and even I, someone who is usually extremely reserved and collected, often get emotional. Most of us work very hard and deal with a fair amount of stress, particularly in the week leading up to launch. If people want to let loose with some celebratory chants so be it. I suppose we could all just start chanting SpaceX-SpaceX-SpaceX although somehow I have feeling someone would find that equally offensive as well. I'm seriously starting to think SpaceX should just stop broadcasting the view from inside the Hawthorne facility.
bane 11y ago
I guarantee that nobody who worked their asses off to accomplish this amazing feat and chanted cares a single wit about your feelings of alienation and exclusion from their accomplishment. If you care that much about it, get competitive and get to work besting them. The more space launch companies there are in competition, the better we are as a species. The chant is a call to you to get to work.

by oska 11y ago

TeMPOraL 11y ago

> But all non-Americans who are watching and also feeling a lot of pride in what the company has achieved instantly feel alienated when the chant gets going because it's exclusionary. Yes, it is, and yes, as an non-American I feel alienated. But I suck it up. Because I'm just a supporter. A fanboy, for a lack of better world. In reality, this is not my success, but the success of men and women working there, almost exclusively American. They have the right to chant however they like and I don't see the reason to make a big deal out of a bit of national pride. Not compared to what they're doing. Also Musk, who's the driver of the culture there, doesn't seem very nationalistic, so I'm not worried they'll try to turn this into USA space hegemony.

patates 11y ago
I didn't really look it up but it would be hard to believe SpaceX being a strictly American company with 100% American workforce. Hell, even if it were, it would still be troublesome if the company didn't position itself as an American nationalistic company - think about all the stakeholders. Maybe some supporters wouldn't be so passionate and some suppliers wouldn't be so perfectionist if they felt they were there for the success of a group that they are not a member of (Humanity vs citizens of USA). From that perspective, it would be even weird for NASA employees to do this, let alone a private company's.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  I didn't say strictly American, I said they're employing "almost exclusively" Americans. Which logically follows from rocket technology being regulated under ITAR.
  - patates 11y ago
    I wasn't referring to that statement (actually skimmed over it, which is unfortunate because it's an interesting piece of information). Apart from that, my point hopefully is clear.
- Sir_Cmpwn 11y ago
  SpaceX's rockets are basically intercontinental ballistic missiles being used for benign purposes. So there are legal regulations that make it difficult for them to hire foreigners. So... > I didn't really look it up but it would be hard to believe SpaceX being a strictly American company with 100% American workforce. They're pretty close to that, actually. Disclaimer: I used to work there
deanCommie 11y ago
Most people aren't gay. Yet we still consider their feelings when we question hateful language. Most people aren't disabled. Yet every office building in the western world has wheelchair ramps and disabled bathrooms. Why alienate the employees who are working for the good of the Company, and the good of Humanity without considering the benefits for the Country (which is arbitrary and hereditary all too often) with no net benefit? (I highly doubt the USA chants are necessary for cohesion and unity at SpaceX)
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  I don't see how chanting for a group, without any implicit or explicit diminishment of other groups compares to hate speech against sexual minorities. Also, chants are not a company policy, it's what employees spontaneously do in their own private space, which you saw on their own private broadcast. (If we're bringing SJW approach into this, then I think you're advocating the minority (SpaceX employees) should adapt to the random cultural expectations of the entitled majority, or whatever.) If you're saying they should be more considerate, that's fine, but they're free to disregard that opinion. Personally, I refuse to get outraged - outrage is more often than not a problem with the person who choses to indulge it.
  - Inconel 11y ago
    I too find it hard to see how so many have conflated chanting for a group, in this case the USA, as being equivalent to actively admonishing another group. The employees at SpaceX aren't burning the flags of foreign countries or otherwise disrespecting or mocking them, they are simply expressing pride in the nation that many of us view as playing an instrumental part in our success. I also don't know what could be done to remedy the situation, assuming its decided that a remedy is in order. I can assure everyone that to my knowledge the chants aren't at all staged, they happen organically and large numbers of employees participate in them. Again, and I hate to be overly repetitive but I think its worth noting that while I don't partake in the chants myself, if we got word from higher up that this was no longer acceptable behavior I would be extraordinarily pissed. I don't care about the chants either way but the employees here are already sacrificing a lot for this mission, they don't need their spontaneous celebrations micromanaged. The atmosphere during launches here is electric, and even I, someone who is usually extremely reserved and collected, often get emotional. Most of us work very hard and deal with a fair amount of stress, particularly in the week leading up to launch. If people want to let loose with some celebratory chants so be it. I suppose we could all just start chanting SpaceX-SpaceX-SpaceX although somehow I have feeling someone would find that equally offensive as well. I'm seriously starting to think SpaceX should just stop broadcasting the view from inside the Hawthorne facility.

bane 11y ago

I guarantee that nobody who worked their asses off to accomplish this amazing feat and chanted cares a single wit about your feelings of alienation and exclusion from their accomplishment. If you care that much about it, get competitive and get to work besting them. The more space launch companies there are in competition, the better we are as a species. The chant is a call to you to get to work.