4 ms·

> This is kind of weird. Most people I know would distinguish between "the world" (not created in the big bang) and "the universe" (also not created in the big

> This is kind of weird. Most people I know would distinguish between "the world" (not created in the big bang) and "the universe" (also not created in the big bang -- it's an expansion event -- but at least related to the big bang). Dont't get you there. What is the world, and what is the universe in your definition? > That isn't by design; it's what remains after religion lost a bunch of conflicts ("where did the water from Noah's Flood go?"). I would say that religion is always, by design, outside the realm of reason. That "design" was badly done when humankind knew less things, so that the religion "designers" made mistakes thinking that they could get away with stuff which was later on taken over by other human disciplines, so that lots of subjects can now be reasonably debated. But the aim of all religion is to be outside rational discussion. As human knowledge progresses, religion is forced to become more and more metaphorical: since the actual facts that it can claim are dwindling, it must relegate itself to the emotional, and accept the facts we know about the universe as god way of expressing himself.

MichaelGG 10y ago
>But the aim of all religion is to be outside rational discussion That's pretty revisionist. Religion certainly was not like that in the past. People 100% truly believed things were literal fact. Religion was an actual thing that "happened" in day-to-day life. It's only in more modern times, with more investigatory powers that people claim that all of religion is out of reach, and that if you try to claim it to be literal, then you're interpreting it wrong.
- gonvaled 10y ago
  > That's pretty revisionist. Religion certainly was not like that in the past. "There is a teapot orbiting the sun, between Venus and Mercury". That is a very concrete fact, and in principle verifiable. I am anyway making a claim outside of rational discussion, because I know that with out current knowledge and technology, it is impossible to discuss this fact. That's how religious facts work: they make concrete claims, but unverifiable with the knowledge and technology of the period when the claim is made. That those claims are unmasked by the progress in human knowledge is just a design flaw of religion, not a prove that they anyhow want to take part in the rational discourse.
thaumasiotes 10y ago
> What is the world, and what is the universe in your definition? The conventional meanings -- the world is the planet; the universe is the universe. Did you ever read or hear of "Around the World in 80 Days"? Ever hear that Magellan circumnavigated the world?
- gonvaled 10y ago
  Ah, ok, I would say the word "world" can be understood in this context as "universe"

MichaelGG 10y ago

>But the aim of all religion is to be outside rational discussion That's pretty revisionist. Religion certainly was not like that in the past. People 100% truly believed things were literal fact. Religion was an actual thing that "happened" in day-to-day life. It's only in more modern times, with more investigatory powers that people claim that all of religion is out of reach, and that if you try to claim it to be literal, then you're interpreting it wrong.

gonvaled 10y ago
> That's pretty revisionist. Religion certainly was not like that in the past. "There is a teapot orbiting the sun, between Venus and Mercury". That is a very concrete fact, and in principle verifiable. I am anyway making a claim outside of rational discussion, because I know that with out current knowledge and technology, it is impossible to discuss this fact. That's how religious facts work: they make concrete claims, but unverifiable with the knowledge and technology of the period when the claim is made. That those claims are unmasked by the progress in human knowledge is just a design flaw of religion, not a prove that they anyhow want to take part in the rational discourse.

thaumasiotes 10y ago

> What is the world, and what is the universe in your definition? The conventional meanings -- the world is the planet; the universe is the universe. Did you ever read or hear of "Around the World in 80 Days"? Ever hear that Magellan circumnavigated the world?

gonvaled 10y ago
Ah, ok, I would say the word "world" can be understood in this context as "universe"