5 ms·

Interesting, but it sounds entirely speculative to me. A poison that presumably damaged something that was repaired through surgery, but which left no trace see

Interesting, but it sounds entirely speculative to me. A poison that presumably damaged something that was repaired through surgery, but which left no trace seems... possible, but unlikely.

nitrogen 10y ago
Also known to make people double over in pain, attack suddenly, and be relieved with abdominal surgery: appendicitis. I read a few paragraphs of the article, but did not continue. Was there any explanation of why poisoning is a likely possibility?
- exhilaration 10y ago
  Surprisingly the article does the opposite: “Stress does funny things to the body,” said one former senior [Central Intelligence] Agency official who added that “there is zero evidence” Kelton was poisoned.
  - a_bonobo 10y ago
    There's also evidence that "placebo surgery" works with pain-related conditions - you essentially fake a surgery and in some cases it's as good as actually performing the surgery, which would explain why a surgery would heal stress-related pain problems in this case. Source: >Last week the New England Journal of Medicine published yet another trial showing that fake surgery can be as good as the real thing. This time the subjects were candidates for knee surgery, with a torn meniscus and debilitating pain. When they arrived in the operating room, study surgeons in Finland performed either a meticulous repair of the torn cartilage, or a charade. Incisions were made, and closed, with no other intervention. In case anesthetized patients could hear or understand, the doctors and nurses passed instruments, made surgical sounds, and pretended to do surgery for as long as the procedure would normally take. >Both surgeries worked. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-h-newman-md/placebo-surgery_b_4545071.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-h-newman-md/placebo-surg...
    - nitrogen 10y ago
      Is it possible that making the incision caused the body to repair the damage itself?
      - a_bonobo 10y ago
        It's certainly possible - but there are other sham/placebo operations with no incision that work equally well too, such as this laser operation: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109705019297 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109705... >After completing the LV mapping procedure and deciding on the potential DMR treatment zones, the patients were randomized to placebo (mock procedure, 102 patients), low-dose (98 patients), or high-dose (98 patients) DMR treatment. If the patient was randomized to placebo, the laser (already in the room) was turned on but no further procedure was performed. If the patient was randomized to receive the Biosense DMR treatment, a laser catheter was introduced and advanced to the LV (left ventricle). This sounds (not 100% sure) as if there was no incision at all in the placebo group.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        I think that it is well established that placebos, in general, that involve breaking the skin are more effective than ones that don't (ISTR this was an significant issue with some research that claimed to show acupuncture was better than a placebo, but used a placebo treatment that did not involve breaking the skin.)

Interesting, but it sounds entirely speculative to me. A poison that presumably damaged something that was repaired through surgery, but which left no trace seems... possible, but unlikely.

nitrogen 10y ago

Also known to make people double over in pain, attack suddenly, and be relieved with abdominal surgery: appendicitis. I read a few paragraphs of the article, but did not continue. Was there any explanation of why poisoning is a likely possibility?

exhilaration 10y ago
Surprisingly the article does the opposite: “Stress does funny things to the body,” said one former senior [Central Intelligence] Agency official who added that “there is zero evidence” Kelton was poisoned.
- a_bonobo 10y ago
  There's also evidence that "placebo surgery" works with pain-related conditions - you essentially fake a surgery and in some cases it's as good as actually performing the surgery, which would explain why a surgery would heal stress-related pain problems in this case. Source: >Last week the New England Journal of Medicine published yet another trial showing that fake surgery can be as good as the real thing. This time the subjects were candidates for knee surgery, with a torn meniscus and debilitating pain. When they arrived in the operating room, study surgeons in Finland performed either a meticulous repair of the torn cartilage, or a charade. Incisions were made, and closed, with no other intervention. In case anesthetized patients could hear or understand, the doctors and nurses passed instruments, made surgical sounds, and pretended to do surgery for as long as the procedure would normally take. >Both surgeries worked. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-h-newman-md/placebo-surgery_b_4545071.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-h-newman-md/placebo-surg...
  - nitrogen 10y ago
    Is it possible that making the incision caused the body to repair the damage itself?
    - a_bonobo 10y ago
      It's certainly possible - but there are other sham/placebo operations with no incision that work equally well too, such as this laser operation: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109705019297 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109705... >After completing the LV mapping procedure and deciding on the potential DMR treatment zones, the patients were randomized to placebo (mock procedure, 102 patients), low-dose (98 patients), or high-dose (98 patients) DMR treatment. If the patient was randomized to placebo, the laser (already in the room) was turned on but no further procedure was performed. If the patient was randomized to receive the Biosense DMR treatment, a laser catheter was introduced and advanced to the LV (left ventricle). This sounds (not 100% sure) as if there was no incision at all in the placebo group.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      I think that it is well established that placebos, in general, that involve breaking the skin are more effective than ones that don't (ISTR this was an significant issue with some research that claimed to show acupuncture was better than a placebo, but used a placebo treatment that did not involve breaking the skin.)