4 ms·

>Religion, especially Christendom and it's various strains. Before that in many cultures, sex was seen a something positive, a pleasure in which you should indu

>Religion, especially Christendom and it's various strains. Before that in many cultures, sex was seen a something positive, a pleasure in which you should indulge in. Neither of those things are really accurate though. Christianity long considered sex positive too. Having sex with your spouse was in fact a legal requirement, your wife could sue you for not performing. Most other cultures were the same way. Everyone having sex with everyone made for a pretty bad society. That's why there was so much focus on pairing off and creating a family.

throwaway2016a 10y ago
Most likely having sex with a prostitute is not your spouse. Also, as someone who was raised Catholic it was very clear. If you're not doing it to procreate you are sinning. (disclaimer: I do not believe that view)
- michaelsbradley 10y ago
  That's not correct, but is a common misunderstanding. The Catholic Church's teaching is that sexual intimacy between spouses has both unitive and procreative dimensions, and that both need to be respected. For a deep dive, see Pope St. John Paul II's Theology of the Body[1] and the late Fr. Paul Quay's The Christian Meaning of Human Sexuality[2]. [1] https://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2TBIND.HTM https://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2TBIND.HTM [2] http://j.mp/QuayMeaningOfSexPDFscan http://j.mp/QuayMeaningOfSexPDFscan
  - throwaway2016a 10y ago
    That's very interesting. It may indeed be incorrect but it is what my priest taught, it is what my teacher at Catholic school taught, and it is what the retreat I had to go on to get married in the church taught.
    - tluyben2 10y ago
      What does that retreat mean? What happens there? Sorry, never heard of such a thing so i'm curious.
      - throwaway2016a 10y ago
        You go to a retreat center for a weekend (usually somewhere secluded, in the woods, on an island, a mountain, etc) with a bunch of other couple who are also getting married and you talk about faith and marriage. It usually involves faith and team building. Some churches will let you get away with night classes but the retreat is usually over in a weekend vs the class that takes longer. Thing is, I'm not particularly religion and neither is my wife, but our family insisted we get married in a Catholic church so we had to go through with it. So I opted for the retreat because it got it over and done with in a weekend.
      - michaelsbradley 10y ago
        A retreat is, generally speaking, a day or series of days (anywhere from 2 to 30+) during which one spends the majority of one's waking hours praying, reflecting silently, listening to presentations on some topic/s and/or attending workshops (which form the basis of one's reflections), and possibly engaging in one-on-one or group discussions (depends on the retreat's format, some entail silence throughout). To lessen distractions from the cares of daily life, retreats are usually conducted away from one's domicile in some peaceful setting (mountains, coast, etc.), at a "retreat center" or some facility that provides sleeping quarters, bathrooms, meeting space, and a refectory. To make the whole exercise cost-efficient, a retreat is usually conducted for a small to medium-sized group, rather than for just one or two participants. In the context of religious institutions, it is a fairly common practice to organize retreats for persons who are finalizing their preparations for a change in state of life, e.g. going from single to married, lay person to ordained, student to graduate, etc. The topics addressed at such retreats usually pertain to that change, with an aim to help participants better prepare internally for the obligations and challenges ahead.
        throwaway2016a 10y ago
- MustardTiger 10y ago
  >Most likely having sex with a prostitute is not your spouse That's my point. Christianity has long been very pro-sex, just with your spouse. As I said, you could be sued for not having sex with your spouse. >Also, as someone who was raised Catholic it was very clear. If you're not doing it to procreate you are sinning. That is totally incorrect. You aren't allowed to prevent conception, you need to "let god decide". But there's nothing suggesting the purpose of sex must be procreation. Again, there's a spiritual and emotional side of sex that is seen as vital.
  - throwaway2016a 10y ago
    That's a little bit of a technically. Saying you have to go all the way, so to speak, and you can't do anything to prevent it is the same as saying it has to be for that purpose. As a mental exercise, say every time you had sex you had to pull the trigger on a revolver that has a bullet in only one barrel. Sure there is a 5/6 chance you will be fine but who in their right mind would take that? Someone can say it has an emotional aspect all they want (and they do, and it's true) but that doesn't stop the other part from being true too. Note: I have a child and I love her more than anything. Buy saying you can't do anything to prevent pregnancy and saying the only way you can have sex if there is a chance you procreate is the same thing (unless your physically incapable).
    - MustardTiger 10y ago
      >Saying you have to go all the way, so to speak, and you can't do anything to prevent it is the same as saying it has to be for that purpose. No it is not. At all. Saying you can't barf up your food after you eat it is not the same as saying you can only eat solely for the purpose of nourishment. You can still eat for taste and pleasure. You just can't prevent yourself from getting the nourishment that goes with it. >Buy saying you can't do anything to prevent pregnancy and saying the only way you can have sex if there is a chance you procreate is the same thing Which has nothing to do with the subject. You are confusing intent with outcome.
      - throwaway2016a 10y ago
TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
False. "In 1968, Pope Paul VI issued his landmark encyclical letter Humanae Vitae (Latin, "Human Life"), which reemphasized the Church’s constant teaching that it is always intrinsically wrong to use contraception to prevent new human beings from coming into existence. Contraception is "any action which, either in anticipation of the conjugal act [sexual intercourse], or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" (Humanae Vitae 14). This includes sterilization, condoms and other barrier methods, spermicides, coitus interruptus (withdrawal method), the Pill, and all other such methods."[1] 1. http://www.catholic.com/tracts/birth-control http://www.catholic.com/tracts/birth-control
- MustardTiger 10y ago
  What is false? Nothing you said contradicts anything I said.
whiddershins 10y ago
> Most other cultures were the same way. Everyone having sex with everyone made for a pretty bad society. The opposite of true. I recommend "Sex at Dawn" for a good treatment of this topic https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Dawn-Stray-Modern-Relationships-ebook/dp/B007679QTG?ie=UTF8&btkr=1&redirect=true&ref_=dp-kindle-redirect https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Dawn-Stray-Modern-Relationships-e... TL;DR "Everyone having sex with everyone" pretty much maintained social cohesion in small societies for millenia.
- rat87 10y ago
  > In opposition to what the authors see as the 'standard narrative' of human sexual evolution, they contend having multiple sexual partners was common and accepted in the environment of evolutionary adaptedness. > The book generated a great deal of publicity in the popular press, where it was met with generally positive reviews. A number of scholars from related academic disciplines such as anthropology, evolutionary psychology, primatology, biology, and sexology have commented on the book; most have been critical of the book's methodology and some of its conclusions, although some academics have praised the book.
- MustardTiger 10y ago
  Popsci is not compelling. That book was eviscerated by actual scientists.
- Mz 10y ago
  You might try reading books by Frans de Waal. He makes a compelling argument that human biology suggests that monogamous pair bonding is a very long standing human tendency.

throwaway2016a 10y ago

Most likely having sex with a prostitute is not your spouse. Also, as someone who was raised Catholic it was very clear. If you're not doing it to procreate you are sinning. (disclaimer: I do not believe that view)

michaelsbradley 10y ago
That's not correct, but is a common misunderstanding. The Catholic Church's teaching is that sexual intimacy between spouses has both unitive and procreative dimensions, and that both need to be respected. For a deep dive, see Pope St. John Paul II's Theology of the Body[1] and the late Fr. Paul Quay's The Christian Meaning of Human Sexuality[2]. [1] https://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2TBIND.HTM https://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2TBIND.HTM [2] http://j.mp/QuayMeaningOfSexPDFscan http://j.mp/QuayMeaningOfSexPDFscan
- throwaway2016a 10y ago
  That's very interesting. It may indeed be incorrect but it is what my priest taught, it is what my teacher at Catholic school taught, and it is what the retreat I had to go on to get married in the church taught.
  - tluyben2 10y ago
    What does that retreat mean? What happens there? Sorry, never heard of such a thing so i'm curious.
    - throwaway2016a 10y ago
      You go to a retreat center for a weekend (usually somewhere secluded, in the woods, on an island, a mountain, etc) with a bunch of other couple who are also getting married and you talk about faith and marriage. It usually involves faith and team building. Some churches will let you get away with night classes but the retreat is usually over in a weekend vs the class that takes longer. Thing is, I'm not particularly religion and neither is my wife, but our family insisted we get married in a Catholic church so we had to go through with it. So I opted for the retreat because it got it over and done with in a weekend.
    - michaelsbradley 10y ago
      A retreat is, generally speaking, a day or series of days (anywhere from 2 to 30+) during which one spends the majority of one's waking hours praying, reflecting silently, listening to presentations on some topic/s and/or attending workshops (which form the basis of one's reflections), and possibly engaging in one-on-one or group discussions (depends on the retreat's format, some entail silence throughout). To lessen distractions from the cares of daily life, retreats are usually conducted away from one's domicile in some peaceful setting (mountains, coast, etc.), at a "retreat center" or some facility that provides sleeping quarters, bathrooms, meeting space, and a refectory. To make the whole exercise cost-efficient, a retreat is usually conducted for a small to medium-sized group, rather than for just one or two participants. In the context of religious institutions, it is a fairly common practice to organize retreats for persons who are finalizing their preparations for a change in state of life, e.g. going from single to married, lay person to ordained, student to graduate, etc. The topics addressed at such retreats usually pertain to that change, with an aim to help participants better prepare internally for the obligations and challenges ahead.
      - throwaway2016a 10y ago
MustardTiger 10y ago
>Most likely having sex with a prostitute is not your spouse That's my point. Christianity has long been very pro-sex, just with your spouse. As I said, you could be sued for not having sex with your spouse. >Also, as someone who was raised Catholic it was very clear. If you're not doing it to procreate you are sinning. That is totally incorrect. You aren't allowed to prevent conception, you need to "let god decide". But there's nothing suggesting the purpose of sex must be procreation. Again, there's a spiritual and emotional side of sex that is seen as vital.
- throwaway2016a 10y ago
  That's a little bit of a technically. Saying you have to go all the way, so to speak, and you can't do anything to prevent it is the same as saying it has to be for that purpose. As a mental exercise, say every time you had sex you had to pull the trigger on a revolver that has a bullet in only one barrel. Sure there is a 5/6 chance you will be fine but who in their right mind would take that? Someone can say it has an emotional aspect all they want (and they do, and it's true) but that doesn't stop the other part from being true too. Note: I have a child and I love her more than anything. Buy saying you can't do anything to prevent pregnancy and saying the only way you can have sex if there is a chance you procreate is the same thing (unless your physically incapable).
  - MustardTiger 10y ago
    >Saying you have to go all the way, so to speak, and you can't do anything to prevent it is the same as saying it has to be for that purpose. No it is not. At all. Saying you can't barf up your food after you eat it is not the same as saying you can only eat solely for the purpose of nourishment. You can still eat for taste and pleasure. You just can't prevent yourself from getting the nourishment that goes with it. >Buy saying you can't do anything to prevent pregnancy and saying the only way you can have sex if there is a chance you procreate is the same thing Which has nothing to do with the subject. You are confusing intent with outcome.
    - throwaway2016a 10y ago

TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago

False. "In 1968, Pope Paul VI issued his landmark encyclical letter Humanae Vitae (Latin, "Human Life"), which reemphasized the Church’s constant teaching that it is always intrinsically wrong to use contraception to prevent new human beings from coming into existence. Contraception is "any action which, either in anticipation of the conjugal act [sexual intercourse], or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" (Humanae Vitae 14). This includes sterilization, condoms and other barrier methods, spermicides, coitus interruptus (withdrawal method), the Pill, and all other such methods."[1] 1. http://www.catholic.com/tracts/birth-control http://www.catholic.com/tracts/birth-control

MustardTiger 10y ago
What is false? Nothing you said contradicts anything I said.

whiddershins 10y ago

> Most other cultures were the same way. Everyone having sex with everyone made for a pretty bad society. The opposite of true. I recommend "Sex at Dawn" for a good treatment of this topic https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Dawn-Stray-Modern-Relationships-ebook/dp/B007679QTG?ie=UTF8&btkr=1&redirect=true&ref_=dp-kindle-redirect https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Dawn-Stray-Modern-Relationships-e... TL;DR "Everyone having sex with everyone" pretty much maintained social cohesion in small societies for millenia.

rat87 10y ago
> In opposition to what the authors see as the 'standard narrative' of human sexual evolution, they contend having multiple sexual partners was common and accepted in the environment of evolutionary adaptedness. > The book generated a great deal of publicity in the popular press, where it was met with generally positive reviews. A number of scholars from related academic disciplines such as anthropology, evolutionary psychology, primatology, biology, and sexology have commented on the book; most have been critical of the book's methodology and some of its conclusions, although some academics have praised the book.
MustardTiger 10y ago
Popsci is not compelling. That book was eviscerated by actual scientists.
Mz 10y ago
You might try reading books by Frans de Waal. He makes a compelling argument that human biology suggests that monogamous pair bonding is a very long standing human tendency.