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I find the moral outrage against sex by my fellow Christians to be a perversion of the teachings of Jesus. Two C.S. Lewis quotes on the subject: "The sins of

I find the moral outrage against sex by my fellow Christians to be a perversion of the teachings of Jesus. Two C.S. Lewis quotes on the subject: "The sins of the flesh are bad, but they are the least bad of all sins." "...a cold, self-righteous prig who goes regularly to church may be far nearer to hell than a prostitute." The desire for sex is ingrained in human nature, and so long as people can pay for things, sex will be one of the things they pay for. If we can reduce the number of victims by making it legal and regulating it, then I'm all for it. But, at the same time, I'd consider myself a failure as a moral guide if my daughter chose it as a career.

shkkmo 10y ago
Would you consider it more of a failure than if she spent her life working minimum wage fast food jobs and watching TV? One of the issues around sex work, even in countries where it is legal is how the stigma associated with sex work leads to increased negative outcomes for sex workers.
tryitnow 10y ago
Those are nice quotes from Lewis, but the fact remains that he and most other Christians would support criminalizing prostitution. And although moral outrage against sex may not be in the teachings of Jesus, it's certainly in the teachings of Paul and other canonical early Christian writers.
- slowmovintarget 10y ago
  I believe prostitution is morally wrong. I believe making it illegal is ineffective. I believe the correct legal thing to do is to criminalize only the buying side of the transaction. If you pay for it, you are victimizing, and that should be criminal. If you provide, that's legal, but not moral.
  - Mz 10y ago
    If you actually read the article, criminalizing the purchase makes it riskier for the sex worker. They are asked to go meet people in more remote areas because the johns want to avoid the cops. This means some of them get murdered, assaulted, etc. Decriminilizing it is about improving safety for sex workers. I think that is where our questions of morality should focus. People are going to continue to have sexual needs. Prostitution gets called the oldest profession for a reason: Even certain monkey/ape species will trade sex for goods (like food). Making it illegal doesn't make it go away. It just makes it riskier and that risk disproportionately negatively impacts the women doing sex work.
    - slowmovintarget 10y ago
      I thought decriminalizing it was about reducing it. For that, the Nordic model actually works. Full decriminalization doesn't. http://mic.com/articles/112814/here-s-what-s-happened-in-sweden-16-years-since-decriminalizing-prostitution http://mic.com/articles/112814/here-s-what-s-happened-in-swe...
- jessaustin 10y ago
  I ripped Paul's bullshit out of my bible.
coliveira 10y ago
It is really easy to understand why Christianity abhors sex. Sex is the most private act we do as humans. If you can control how, when, and with whom you make sex, then you have huge control over the whole life of a person. That's why the Christian church is so adamant at defining what is good or bad in terms of sexual behavior.
- threatofrain 10y ago
  I don't believe that's why Christians abhor sex. I think it's just that they were raised in a sex-anxious environment, and they've come to proliferate that internal response to sex. I think they have an internal feeling of right versus wrong, and then they seek out belief structures that justify their feelings.
  - WalterSear 10y ago
    You are the parent comment are both right, IMHO.
  - slowmovintarget 10y ago
    Christians do not abhor sex. Christians are taught to abhor sex outside of a marital relationship. That means all this psychological discussion of "feeling dirty" and "justifying their feelings" is attacking a straw man fallacy.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - threatofrain 10y ago
      You're saying that you think Christians don't feel anxious about sex because they are taught to abhor sex outside of marriage? I think that is a weak reframing of the breadth of sex, and that sex for the supermajority of American people, in and out of the church, is pre-marital. I think young Christian boys are taught that sexual fantasy and pornography is the same as adultery, a defilement of the temple that is their body. I think one example that's brought up along these lines of narrative is a story of direct divine punishment for the spilling of seed. I think Protestant and non-denominationals with sizeable youth groups form little sexual discussion groups, especially for boys, where they vent their sexual guilt with regards to their fantasy of the day or how they masturbated. I think American Christian parents are ever anxious about government discussion of sex, and that they backwardly expend finite energy to make it a political battle point. And I think American Christian culture is as much about the implicit as it is about the explicit. But somehow your choice framing of the discussion is that Christians don't feel dirty about sex because they are explicitly taught that only sex outside of marriage is dirty. Young boys and girls in the church learn the anxiety of the community and their parents first, and then they listen to the belief structures to justify that anxiety. A straw man, by the way, is a misrepresentation of someone else's discussion, and not actually a logical fallacy at all. It is by definition outside of logical purview. Most people would be better off not ever hearing about logical fallacies, because it gets in the way of quality thinking. Anyways, I want to make one last point about American Christians expending their precious, finite energy in politics. I say that there are 3 high consensus Christian political issues in America, in order of strength: (1) abortion, (2) homosexuality, and (3) sex education in school. The latter is the weakest, and mostly in state-level politics, but there it is brutally fought. Notice the theme of these 3 issues? It's really kind of silly that these are the highest consensus issues for American Christians. Um, not poverty, right? Or injustice in the police system, and classism and racism in America? Yes. Let's discuss abortion, homosexuality, and sex education in schools (condoms detract from abstinence!).

shkkmo 10y ago

Would you consider it more of a failure than if she spent her life working minimum wage fast food jobs and watching TV? One of the issues around sex work, even in countries where it is legal is how the stigma associated with sex work leads to increased negative outcomes for sex workers.

tryitnow 10y ago

Those are nice quotes from Lewis, but the fact remains that he and most other Christians would support criminalizing prostitution. And although moral outrage against sex may not be in the teachings of Jesus, it's certainly in the teachings of Paul and other canonical early Christian writers.

slowmovintarget 10y ago
I believe prostitution is morally wrong. I believe making it illegal is ineffective. I believe the correct legal thing to do is to criminalize only the buying side of the transaction. If you pay for it, you are victimizing, and that should be criminal. If you provide, that's legal, but not moral.
- Mz 10y ago
  If you actually read the article, criminalizing the purchase makes it riskier for the sex worker. They are asked to go meet people in more remote areas because the johns want to avoid the cops. This means some of them get murdered, assaulted, etc. Decriminilizing it is about improving safety for sex workers. I think that is where our questions of morality should focus. People are going to continue to have sexual needs. Prostitution gets called the oldest profession for a reason: Even certain monkey/ape species will trade sex for goods (like food). Making it illegal doesn't make it go away. It just makes it riskier and that risk disproportionately negatively impacts the women doing sex work.
  - slowmovintarget 10y ago
    I thought decriminalizing it was about reducing it. For that, the Nordic model actually works. Full decriminalization doesn't. http://mic.com/articles/112814/here-s-what-s-happened-in-sweden-16-years-since-decriminalizing-prostitution http://mic.com/articles/112814/here-s-what-s-happened-in-swe...
jessaustin 10y ago
I ripped Paul's bullshit out of my bible.

coliveira 10y ago

It is really easy to understand why Christianity abhors sex. Sex is the most private act we do as humans. If you can control how, when, and with whom you make sex, then you have huge control over the whole life of a person. That's why the Christian church is so adamant at defining what is good or bad in terms of sexual behavior.

threatofrain 10y ago
I don't believe that's why Christians abhor sex. I think it's just that they were raised in a sex-anxious environment, and they've come to proliferate that internal response to sex. I think they have an internal feeling of right versus wrong, and then they seek out belief structures that justify their feelings.
- WalterSear 10y ago
  You are the parent comment are both right, IMHO.
- slowmovintarget 10y ago
  Christians do not abhor sex. Christians are taught to abhor sex outside of a marital relationship. That means all this psychological discussion of "feeling dirty" and "justifying their feelings" is attacking a straw man fallacy.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - threatofrain 10y ago
    You're saying that you think Christians don't feel anxious about sex because they are taught to abhor sex outside of marriage? I think that is a weak reframing of the breadth of sex, and that sex for the supermajority of American people, in and out of the church, is pre-marital. I think young Christian boys are taught that sexual fantasy and pornography is the same as adultery, a defilement of the temple that is their body. I think one example that's brought up along these lines of narrative is a story of direct divine punishment for the spilling of seed. I think Protestant and non-denominationals with sizeable youth groups form little sexual discussion groups, especially for boys, where they vent their sexual guilt with regards to their fantasy of the day or how they masturbated. I think American Christian parents are ever anxious about government discussion of sex, and that they backwardly expend finite energy to make it a political battle point. And I think American Christian culture is as much about the implicit as it is about the explicit. But somehow your choice framing of the discussion is that Christians don't feel dirty about sex because they are explicitly taught that only sex outside of marriage is dirty. Young boys and girls in the church learn the anxiety of the community and their parents first, and then they listen to the belief structures to justify that anxiety. A straw man, by the way, is a misrepresentation of someone else's discussion, and not actually a logical fallacy at all. It is by definition outside of logical purview. Most people would be better off not ever hearing about logical fallacies, because it gets in the way of quality thinking. Anyways, I want to make one last point about American Christians expending their precious, finite energy in politics. I say that there are 3 high consensus Christian political issues in America, in order of strength: (1) abortion, (2) homosexuality, and (3) sex education in school. The latter is the weakest, and mostly in state-level politics, but there it is brutally fought. Notice the theme of these 3 issues? It's really kind of silly that these are the highest consensus issues for American Christians. Um, not poverty, right? Or injustice in the police system, and classism and racism in America? Yes. Let's discuss abortion, homosexuality, and sex education in schools (condoms detract from abstinence!).