3 ms·

There's this assumption that are $15-$18 per square foot. I'm no expert here, but I think that number might be roughly double what cities actually pay, based on

There's this assumption that are $15-$18 per square foot. I'm no expert here, but I think that number might be roughly double what cities actually pay, based on this document from the State of Michigan : https://www.michigan.gov/documents/Vol2-40UIP16SubDevCosts-YardCosts-Demolition_121083_7.pdf https://www.michigan.gov/documents/Vol2-40UIP16SubDevCosts-Y... It's a decade old, but I'm seeing only $8/square foot cost, not $15+. Using the rest of the authors map + numbers, the majority of properties are now actually covering their street costs, with some room to spare for extras (such as curbs, sewers, sidewalks, etc, which suburban sprawl-type streets typically don't have). Of course, Michigan roads are infamous for being terrible -- this might be the reason. It might also be worth considering that a lot of high-end sprawl costs the city nothing in maintenance for their roads, since they are privately paved / plowed / maintained by HOAs.

maxerickson 10y ago
How are you arriving at $8? The footnote on page 2 puts it maybe close to that at minimum just for the construction (the article is including 30 years of maintenance).
- maxsilver 10y ago
  I'm not including water mains, electricity, and gas mains. (Since they aren't really part of the street -- they generate their own revenue through usage charges + other taxes). Here's another person also arriving at roughly $8/sqft in California : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11640167 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11640167
ffumarola 10y ago
CPI from 2003 to 2016 would bring that $8 up to $10.35, FWIW. And then, as you mentioned, road quality may come in to play. As would labor costs and other factors.
- fraserharris 10y ago
  And that doesn't incorporate the government administration cost, which the author's number includes (by taking the actual city budget).
kevinnk 10y ago
> Of course, Michigan roads are infamous for being terrible -- this might be the reason. This is a bit of a tangent, but Michigan actually has fairly high construction standards for roads. However, it also has one of the highest truck weight limits in the nation (over double the federal limit) and most road damage comes from heavy trucks.
- bbarn 10y ago
  And winter freeze/thaw cycles, which Michigan also has plenty of :)
jtsnow 10y ago
Yes, I think you are right. Here is an analysis that places the 30-year lifecycle costs of a road at $8.63 per square foot: http://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2014/7/10/fiscal-impacts-of-residential-growth.html http://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2014/7/10/fiscal-impacts-... This research seems more thorough, but still concludes that low-density developments often require much more than 30 years to pay off a road's 30-year lifecycle. Edit: Looks like OP's calculations are based on how much of the collected taxes actually goes to the road budget.

maxerickson 10y ago

How are you arriving at $8? The footnote on page 2 puts it maybe close to that at minimum just for the construction (the article is including 30 years of maintenance).

maxsilver 10y ago
I'm not including water mains, electricity, and gas mains. (Since they aren't really part of the street -- they generate their own revenue through usage charges + other taxes). Here's another person also arriving at roughly $8/sqft in California : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11640167 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11640167

ffumarola 10y ago

CPI from 2003 to 2016 would bring that $8 up to $10.35, FWIW. And then, as you mentioned, road quality may come in to play. As would labor costs and other factors.

fraserharris 10y ago
And that doesn't incorporate the government administration cost, which the author's number includes (by taking the actual city budget).

kevinnk 10y ago

> Of course, Michigan roads are infamous for being terrible -- this might be the reason. This is a bit of a tangent, but Michigan actually has fairly high construction standards for roads. However, it also has one of the highest truck weight limits in the nation (over double the federal limit) and most road damage comes from heavy trucks.

bbarn 10y ago
And winter freeze/thaw cycles, which Michigan also has plenty of :)

jtsnow 10y ago

Yes, I think you are right. Here is an analysis that places the 30-year lifecycle costs of a road at $8.63 per square foot: http://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2014/7/10/fiscal-impacts-of-residential-growth.html http://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2014/7/10/fiscal-impacts-... This research seems more thorough, but still concludes that low-density developments often require much more than 30 years to pay off a road's 30-year lifecycle. Edit: Looks like OP's calculations are based on how much of the collected taxes actually goes to the road budget.