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Wait, hold on - let me break this down a little more simplistically: Communities of foreign-born peoples, possibly already living in the US (undocumented / fal

Wait, hold on - let me break this down a little more simplistically: Communities of foreign-born peoples, possibly already living in the US (undocumented / falsified records) exist. There are "brokers" who cater to these communities, engaging in a fraudulent enterprise of getting Student Visas for these foreign nationals, usually under the umbrella of a made-up university. With this made-up university, these people can claim to be students yet spend their time working - for whom, over or under the table, I'm not clear from the article. What is quite clear: >Most of the students were from China and India, where working with brokers is a familiar way of doing business. This model of using brokers is not to be envied, and if 25 (or more) "students" were led into submitting their documentation in order to commit fraud in the US...well, I've got no sympathy. Make a point. In the US, the concept of "brokers" often includes licenses and duties to perform in earnest (insurance, securities, health plans, etc), not assisting with committing fraud. I understand the strong desire to come to the US, legally or illegally, and stay however possible. That's what's being preyed upon as well. There are certain cultural practices in the US though, while not perfect, I still think have meaning and importance. This article does a good job putting humanity to those affected, but seems, um, a bit tone-deaf as to the bigger picture...in that to find people willing to commit fraud, the setup had to be 'believable' enough. Methinks it was. Caveat Emptor.

dreamdu5t 11y ago
Bigger picture? The bigger picture is Americans think going to school and working should be illegal for anyone else but themselves, and that it's okay to hurt young students trying to get ahead in the name of protecting their xenophobic and hypocritical immigration laws. Your presidential candidate's biggest idea is a fucking giant wall to keep the mexicans you love to employ out. What a joke. If you think there's any sense to stings like this you're deluded.
- anoonmoose 11y ago
  These students were not going to school. They knew they wouldn't be taking classes. Are you arguing this wasn't a scam?
  - dreamdu5t 11y ago
    I'm not arguing anything. Students who pay thousands of dollars to try and get citizenship so they can work and make a life for themselves aren't the problem, should not be seen as "the enemy", and aren't fraudsters. Someone who intends to trick others for financial gain is a fraudster. Get some perspective. If a kid uses my credit card to sign up for a porn subscription... she has technically committed fraud. But she's not a fraudster, and throwing the book at her would be seen as ridiculous.
  - paulmd 11y ago
    Most universities will let you do an internship or something instead of a class. And, this university was accredited by a reputable organization, so they held this out as something that a great number of reputable people and organizations had supposedly said was OK. And these were foreigners in particular, so they might not have the same warning signals that US natives might have. At the end of the day the US higher-ed system is largely pay-to-win anyway. If you just want to check the boxes so you can make it through the HR filters and move onto a decent-paying job, most schools will happily oblige. All they care about is if the check clears, there's plenty of students who surf the internet through their gen-eds and easily pass. College is what you make of it, and it's simply not that weird to see an accredited university offering a super-easy course load. If the difference you're seeing here is that they don't hold a lecture for the kids to skip, who cares? Sounds like cost optimization to me - eliminate the tutoring and you can get your name on a piece of piece of paper and check that box even more cheaply.
- 67726e 11y ago
  People commuting fraud? Yeah, real fucking hard working. My grandparents came here, legally, worked their ass off to provide and integrated. If you don't want to play fair, too fucking bad. We don't owe you shit. We never have, and never will. And why bring Trump into this? I'd prefer it that my blue collar father didn't get out-competed by illegal immigrants. Unfortunately cheap, unscrupulous businessman often don't care. Nor do the illegals who purchase stolen credentials.
  - dreamdu5t 11y ago
    > My grandparents came here, legally, worked their ass off to provide and integrated. That doesn't mean people who come here illegally don't work their ass off. But typical American attitude "I got mine so screw you!"
    - 67726e 11y ago
      These fuckers clearly didn't. And yet you're arguing we're somehow doing something wrong by going after them? This is a clear-cut case of fraud. I'll have you know I grew up in the southern US, I have many "illegal" friends I grew up with. You know what they did? Worked hard and found their own path. Hell, my "child of immigrants" mother actively denigrates Hispanics and I call her out when she does. Somehow I have a "fuck you, got mine" attitude?
      - dreamdu5t 11y ago
        The only fucker here is you, defending the idea that people who pay money to try and get into the US should be punished. Working hard and immigrating illegally are not mutually exclusive - nor does these students illegally coming here harm anyone whose already here.
        67726e 11y ago
        They paid money to commit a crime. I don't see why we should allow those exhibiting moral turpitude inside our country. They could have found a legal, if not more arduous channel to enter legally. Instead, they are criminals. If I am a fucker, you are a traitor to the country. Or, you're a foreign agent who needs to stow his opinions on our domestic policies.
- 6stringmerc 11y ago
  Oh really? I went to graduate school alongside 20+ Tawainese, South Korean, and other SE Asian nationals who did things right, who were attending classes, and who are the ones who would be hurt by this scam. Honest people pay the price. If you think for a hot minute that a student "going to a University" and not going to classes but instead "working full-time" isn't an abuse of the Student Visa system, then I'm not the deluded one. It's you, projecting xenophobia on top of plain as day crime and punishment. Take your whole garbage assertion that the US should change its culture to better match bribery and graft as the only indicators of accomplishment and use it somewhere else. I'm not buying it. Not a bit.
  - dreamdu5t 11y ago
    How were American students hurt by this? Immigrating illegally is a victimless crime.
csours 11y ago
Caveat Emptor indeed, but 3 separate official sites listed the college as being legitimate.
- 6stringmerc 11y ago
  Which appeals to the greed of thos applying. After all, what good is a No-show degree if it's not accredited? By nature accredited institutions shouldn't be engaged in the activity that was requested (credit for not showing up).

dreamdu5t 11y ago

Bigger picture? The bigger picture is Americans think going to school and working should be illegal for anyone else but themselves, and that it's okay to hurt young students trying to get ahead in the name of protecting their xenophobic and hypocritical immigration laws. Your presidential candidate's biggest idea is a fucking giant wall to keep the mexicans you love to employ out. What a joke. If you think there's any sense to stings like this you're deluded.

anoonmoose 11y ago
These students were not going to school. They knew they wouldn't be taking classes. Are you arguing this wasn't a scam?
- dreamdu5t 11y ago
  I'm not arguing anything. Students who pay thousands of dollars to try and get citizenship so they can work and make a life for themselves aren't the problem, should not be seen as "the enemy", and aren't fraudsters. Someone who intends to trick others for financial gain is a fraudster. Get some perspective. If a kid uses my credit card to sign up for a porn subscription... she has technically committed fraud. But she's not a fraudster, and throwing the book at her would be seen as ridiculous.
- paulmd 11y ago
  Most universities will let you do an internship or something instead of a class. And, this university was accredited by a reputable organization, so they held this out as something that a great number of reputable people and organizations had supposedly said was OK. And these were foreigners in particular, so they might not have the same warning signals that US natives might have. At the end of the day the US higher-ed system is largely pay-to-win anyway. If you just want to check the boxes so you can make it through the HR filters and move onto a decent-paying job, most schools will happily oblige. All they care about is if the check clears, there's plenty of students who surf the internet through their gen-eds and easily pass. College is what you make of it, and it's simply not that weird to see an accredited university offering a super-easy course load. If the difference you're seeing here is that they don't hold a lecture for the kids to skip, who cares? Sounds like cost optimization to me - eliminate the tutoring and you can get your name on a piece of piece of paper and check that box even more cheaply.
67726e 11y ago
People commuting fraud? Yeah, real fucking hard working. My grandparents came here, legally, worked their ass off to provide and integrated. If you don't want to play fair, too fucking bad. We don't owe you shit. We never have, and never will. And why bring Trump into this? I'd prefer it that my blue collar father didn't get out-competed by illegal immigrants. Unfortunately cheap, unscrupulous businessman often don't care. Nor do the illegals who purchase stolen credentials.
- dreamdu5t 11y ago
  > My grandparents came here, legally, worked their ass off to provide and integrated. That doesn't mean people who come here illegally don't work their ass off. But typical American attitude "I got mine so screw you!"
  - 67726e 11y ago
    These fuckers clearly didn't. And yet you're arguing we're somehow doing something wrong by going after them? This is a clear-cut case of fraud. I'll have you know I grew up in the southern US, I have many "illegal" friends I grew up with. You know what they did? Worked hard and found their own path. Hell, my "child of immigrants" mother actively denigrates Hispanics and I call her out when she does. Somehow I have a "fuck you, got mine" attitude?
    - dreamdu5t 11y ago
      The only fucker here is you, defending the idea that people who pay money to try and get into the US should be punished. Working hard and immigrating illegally are not mutually exclusive - nor does these students illegally coming here harm anyone whose already here.
      - 67726e 11y ago
        They paid money to commit a crime. I don't see why we should allow those exhibiting moral turpitude inside our country. They could have found a legal, if not more arduous channel to enter legally. Instead, they are criminals. If I am a fucker, you are a traitor to the country. Or, you're a foreign agent who needs to stow his opinions on our domestic policies.
6stringmerc 11y ago
Oh really? I went to graduate school alongside 20+ Tawainese, South Korean, and other SE Asian nationals who did things right, who were attending classes, and who are the ones who would be hurt by this scam. Honest people pay the price. If you think for a hot minute that a student "going to a University" and not going to classes but instead "working full-time" isn't an abuse of the Student Visa system, then I'm not the deluded one. It's you, projecting xenophobia on top of plain as day crime and punishment. Take your whole garbage assertion that the US should change its culture to better match bribery and graft as the only indicators of accomplishment and use it somewhere else. I'm not buying it. Not a bit.
- dreamdu5t 11y ago
  How were American students hurt by this? Immigrating illegally is a victimless crime.

csours 11y ago

Caveat Emptor indeed, but 3 separate official sites listed the college as being legitimate.

6stringmerc 11y ago
Which appeals to the greed of thos applying. After all, what good is a No-show degree if it's not accredited? By nature accredited institutions shouldn't be engaged in the activity that was requested (credit for not showing up).