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> Can you present data to back this up? I framed it the way I did because all I have is anecdotes. When I say "a lot of people are addicted to nicotine that we

> Can you present data to back this up? I framed it the way I did because all I have is anecdotes. When I say "a lot of people are addicted to nicotine that weren't before" this is substantiated by my personal knowledge of around three dozen individuals. > I'm really skeptical of your claim that e-cigarettes are introducing more people to smoking. There are more than three hundred million people in the US. E-cigs are a multibillion dollar industry. It would be astonishing if there was no one introduced to nicotine by e-cigs. > vaping indoors was pretty common a couple years ago, it's been more than a year since I saw anyone do it in Chicago. > As the parent of someone who was a middle schooler just last year, let me add that I would be flabbergasted to see one of them vaping, Some of this is probably cultural. I've never been to Chicago, but Chicago friends tell me that people are generally much health-focused in Chicago. I live in a southern rural area, and from what a teacher friend tells me and from my own observation, about a third of local middle schoolers vape. I can definitely believe this is an outlier, but even that's too much, in my opinion, considering it didn't have to be that way. There are much fewer smokers, and that's been about constant.

tptacek 11y ago
"Chicago friends tell me that people are generally much health-focused in Chicago". This city is practically made of sausage. Its official vegetable is bacon. I'm sure someone, somewhere has gotten hooked on nicotine by way of e-cigarettes, but it's nowhere close to cigarettes. A 12 year old can get a pack of cigarettes and hand them out to their friends. Try that with one of those dorky e-cig pens.
- Amezarak 11y ago
  If we assume that childhood obesity is a reasonable proxy for health, then Chicago is healthier than my state: 25% vs 31%. [1] [2] (I use state because nobody is publishing statistics on the local level.) > Try that with one of those dorky e-cig pens. They just pass them around if someone doesn't have one. [1] http://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/cdph/CDPH/OverweightObesityReportFeb272013.pdf http://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/cdph/CDP... [2] http://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/resources/3593.pdf http://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/resources/3593.pdf
  - tptacek 11y ago
    They really don't.
    - Amezarak 11y ago
      I'm not speculating. I'm telling you what I see daily in front of the school.
      - tptacek 11y ago
        I remain skeptical. I did some research, and the reports I found suggest that e-cig usage among teenagers is rare relative to cigarettes, and that most teenage e-cig users are former cigarette smokers. And again, as a parent of two children in roughly this age group, what you're saying you see every day conflicts with my own experience. I think you're wrong about the general argument you're trying to make about e-cigarettes.
        Retric 11y ago
        About 5 of every 100 middle school students (5.3%) reported in 2015 that they used electronic cigarettes in the past 30 days—an increase from 0.6% in 2011. About 2 of every 100 middle school students (2.3%) reported in 2015 that they smoked cigarettes in the past 30 days. http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/youth_data/tobacco_use/ http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/youth... Findings from the 2014 National Youth Tobacco Survey show that current e-cigarette use (use on at least 1 day in the past 30 days) among high school students increased from 4.5 percent in 2013 to 13.4 percent in 2014, rising from approximately 660,000 to 2 million students http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2015/p0416-e-cigarette-use.html http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2015/p0416-e-cigarette-use... PS: Why do you constantly say stuff like this when fact's are clearly not on your side?
        tptacek 11y ago
        I got my assertion from: http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_959.pdf http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_959.pdf

tptacek 11y ago

"Chicago friends tell me that people are generally much health-focused in Chicago". This city is practically made of sausage. Its official vegetable is bacon. I'm sure someone, somewhere has gotten hooked on nicotine by way of e-cigarettes, but it's nowhere close to cigarettes. A 12 year old can get a pack of cigarettes and hand them out to their friends. Try that with one of those dorky e-cig pens.

Amezarak 11y ago
If we assume that childhood obesity is a reasonable proxy for health, then Chicago is healthier than my state: 25% vs 31%. [1] [2] (I use state because nobody is publishing statistics on the local level.) > Try that with one of those dorky e-cig pens. They just pass them around if someone doesn't have one. [1] http://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/cdph/CDPH/OverweightObesityReportFeb272013.pdf http://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/cdph/CDP... [2] http://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/resources/3593.pdf http://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/resources/3593.pdf
- tptacek 11y ago
  They really don't.
  - Amezarak 11y ago
    I'm not speculating. I'm telling you what I see daily in front of the school.
    - tptacek 11y ago
      I remain skeptical. I did some research, and the reports I found suggest that e-cig usage among teenagers is rare relative to cigarettes, and that most teenage e-cig users are former cigarette smokers. And again, as a parent of two children in roughly this age group, what you're saying you see every day conflicts with my own experience. I think you're wrong about the general argument you're trying to make about e-cigarettes.
      - Retric 11y ago
        About 5 of every 100 middle school students (5.3%) reported in 2015 that they used electronic cigarettes in the past 30 days—an increase from 0.6% in 2011. About 2 of every 100 middle school students (2.3%) reported in 2015 that they smoked cigarettes in the past 30 days. http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/youth_data/tobacco_use/ http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/youth... Findings from the 2014 National Youth Tobacco Survey show that current e-cigarette use (use on at least 1 day in the past 30 days) among high school students increased from 4.5 percent in 2013 to 13.4 percent in 2014, rising from approximately 660,000 to 2 million students http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2015/p0416-e-cigarette-use.html http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2015/p0416-e-cigarette-use... PS: Why do you constantly say stuff like this when fact's are clearly not on your side?
        tptacek 11y ago
        I got my assertion from: http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_959.pdf http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_959.pdf