6 ms·

Bootleggers and Baptists... I wonder how all the hysterical anti-tobacco organizations, who see anything with nicotine in it as the second coming of tobacco smo

by aab0 10y ago

Bootleggers and Baptists... I wonder how all the hysterical anti-tobacco organizations, who see anything with nicotine in it as the second coming of tobacco smoking, feel about that? It should feel awkward.

Amezarak 10y ago
Well, I favor it. Just because it favors Big Tobacco doesn't mean it doesn't simultaneously do some good. Big Tobacco's self interest is, in this case, what I consider to be the general interest. It was actually incredible to me that e-cigs got away with so little regulation for so long in the first place. The only thing I'm worried about is it's too little, too late: there are a lot of people now who are hooked on nicotine who weren't before, and the constant barrage of marketing claiming they are perfectly safe is only making matters worse. And yes, I recognize that it possibly has some use in helping smokers quit or move to a nicotine delivery system that is most probably less harmful. If that's the justification for e-cigs, then limit sales to smokers.
- tptacek 10y ago
  There are a lot more people hooked on nicotine than before? Is there evidence you can cite for that? That's a surprising statement. E-cigarettes are 100x dorkier than cigarettes and much more annoying to use. Virtually none of my smoker friends stick with them for very long.
  - Amezarak 10y ago
    > There are a lot more people hooked on nicotine than before? Is there evidence you can cite for that? I said "who weren't before", i.e., there are new nicotine addicts who became addicted through e-cig usage (and probably would not have become addicted otherwise.) I did not say, and I doubt, that there are more nicotine addicts than before given the general downward trend in smoking. I generally see two types of people vaping or using e-cigs: middle schoolers and smokers who want an additional fix, often in places they aren't allowed to smoke - for some reason a huge number of vapers, etc. think that no-smoking rules don't apply to them. I've seen people get violent over being asked to stop vaping in a no-smoking area twice.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      Can you present data to back this up? I would be surprised to learn that it was true. Middle schoolers, for instance, can get cigarettes even more easily than they can e-cigs†, and while vaping indoors was pretty common a couple years ago, it's been more than a year since I saw anyone do it in Chicago. I guess I'm saying: I'm really skeptical of your claim that e-cigarettes are introducing more people to smoking. Cigarettes already do a pretty amazing job of introducing people to smoking. † As the parent of someone who was a middle schooler just last year, let me add that I would be flabbergasted to see one of them vaping, but not entirely surprised to see them with a cigarette. If I saw a teenager vaping, "tobacco" would not be my first guess as to the intoxicant involved.
      - Amezarak 10y ago
        > Can you present data to back this up? I framed it the way I did because all I have is anecdotes. When I say "a lot of people are addicted to nicotine that weren't before" this is substantiated by my personal knowledge of around three dozen individuals. > I'm really skeptical of your claim that e-cigarettes are introducing more people to smoking. There are more than three hundred million people in the US. E-cigs are a multibillion dollar industry. It would be astonishing if there was no one introduced to nicotine by e-cigs. > vaping indoors was pretty common a couple years ago, it's been more than a year since I saw anyone do it in Chicago. > As the parent of someone who was a middle schooler just last year, let me add that I would be flabbergasted to see one of them vaping, Some of this is probably cultural. I've never been to Chicago, but Chicago friends tell me that people are generally much health-focused in Chicago. I live in a southern rural area, and from what a teacher friend tells me and from my own observation, about a third of local middle schoolers vape. I can definitely believe this is an outlier, but even that's too much, in my opinion, considering it didn't have to be that way. There are much fewer smokers, and that's been about constant.
        tptacek 10y ago
        "Chicago friends tell me that people are generally much health-focused in Chicago". This city is practically made of sausage. Its official vegetable is bacon. I'm sure someone, somewhere has gotten hooked on nicotine by way of e-cigarettes, but it's nowhere close to cigarettes. A 12 year old can get a pack of cigarettes and hand them out to their friends. Try that with one of those dorky e-cig pens.
  - nitrogen 10y ago
    E-cigarettes are 100x dorkier than cigarettes and much more annoying to use. Unfortunately my friends of friends who vape didn't get this memo. People who never would have picked up smoking are now addicted to vaping.
- Zigurd 10y ago
  Assuming more people use nicotine than before, and you have no proof of that, regulating e-cigs without showing negative health effects is a bad idea. It's also a bluenose idea: Kids are using a mind altering drug! OMG! Other than the approved ones like caffeine in Mountain Dew and Coke, which, with the sugar, are certainly more harmful than nicotine.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
snowwrestler 10y ago
They're pleased with the regulation. Example: http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/press_releases/post/2016_05_05_ecig http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/press_releases/post/2016_05_0...

by aab0 10y ago

Amezarak 10y ago

Well, I favor it. Just because it favors Big Tobacco doesn't mean it doesn't simultaneously do some good. Big Tobacco's self interest is, in this case, what I consider to be the general interest. It was actually incredible to me that e-cigs got away with so little regulation for so long in the first place. The only thing I'm worried about is it's too little, too late: there are a lot of people now who are hooked on nicotine who weren't before, and the constant barrage of marketing claiming they are perfectly safe is only making matters worse. And yes, I recognize that it possibly has some use in helping smokers quit or move to a nicotine delivery system that is most probably less harmful. If that's the justification for e-cigs, then limit sales to smokers.

tptacek 10y ago
There are a lot more people hooked on nicotine than before? Is there evidence you can cite for that? That's a surprising statement. E-cigarettes are 100x dorkier than cigarettes and much more annoying to use. Virtually none of my smoker friends stick with them for very long.
- Amezarak 10y ago
  > There are a lot more people hooked on nicotine than before? Is there evidence you can cite for that? I said "who weren't before", i.e., there are new nicotine addicts who became addicted through e-cig usage (and probably would not have become addicted otherwise.) I did not say, and I doubt, that there are more nicotine addicts than before given the general downward trend in smoking. I generally see two types of people vaping or using e-cigs: middle schoolers and smokers who want an additional fix, often in places they aren't allowed to smoke - for some reason a huge number of vapers, etc. think that no-smoking rules don't apply to them. I've seen people get violent over being asked to stop vaping in a no-smoking area twice.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    Can you present data to back this up? I would be surprised to learn that it was true. Middle schoolers, for instance, can get cigarettes even more easily than they can e-cigs†, and while vaping indoors was pretty common a couple years ago, it's been more than a year since I saw anyone do it in Chicago. I guess I'm saying: I'm really skeptical of your claim that e-cigarettes are introducing more people to smoking. Cigarettes already do a pretty amazing job of introducing people to smoking. † As the parent of someone who was a middle schooler just last year, let me add that I would be flabbergasted to see one of them vaping, but not entirely surprised to see them with a cigarette. If I saw a teenager vaping, "tobacco" would not be my first guess as to the intoxicant involved.
    - Amezarak 10y ago
      > Can you present data to back this up? I framed it the way I did because all I have is anecdotes. When I say "a lot of people are addicted to nicotine that weren't before" this is substantiated by my personal knowledge of around three dozen individuals. > I'm really skeptical of your claim that e-cigarettes are introducing more people to smoking. There are more than three hundred million people in the US. E-cigs are a multibillion dollar industry. It would be astonishing if there was no one introduced to nicotine by e-cigs. > vaping indoors was pretty common a couple years ago, it's been more than a year since I saw anyone do it in Chicago. > As the parent of someone who was a middle schooler just last year, let me add that I would be flabbergasted to see one of them vaping, Some of this is probably cultural. I've never been to Chicago, but Chicago friends tell me that people are generally much health-focused in Chicago. I live in a southern rural area, and from what a teacher friend tells me and from my own observation, about a third of local middle schoolers vape. I can definitely believe this is an outlier, but even that's too much, in my opinion, considering it didn't have to be that way. There are much fewer smokers, and that's been about constant.
      - tptacek 10y ago
        "Chicago friends tell me that people are generally much health-focused in Chicago". This city is practically made of sausage. Its official vegetable is bacon. I'm sure someone, somewhere has gotten hooked on nicotine by way of e-cigarettes, but it's nowhere close to cigarettes. A 12 year old can get a pack of cigarettes and hand them out to their friends. Try that with one of those dorky e-cig pens.
- nitrogen 10y ago
  E-cigarettes are 100x dorkier than cigarettes and much more annoying to use. Unfortunately my friends of friends who vape didn't get this memo. People who never would have picked up smoking are now addicted to vaping.
Zigurd 10y ago
Assuming more people use nicotine than before, and you have no proof of that, regulating e-cigs without showing negative health effects is a bad idea. It's also a bluenose idea: Kids are using a mind altering drug! OMG! Other than the approved ones like caffeine in Mountain Dew and Coke, which, with the sugar, are certainly more harmful than nicotine.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

snowwrestler 10y ago

They're pleased with the regulation. Example: http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/press_releases/post/2016_05_05_ecig http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/press_releases/post/2016_05_0...