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"atomized glycerine" drawn over a hot metal element. It's that heated element that biochemists find worrisome. We regularly use hot metal elements ("catalysts

"atomized glycerine" drawn over a hot metal element. It's that heated element that biochemists find worrisome. We regularly use hot metal elements ("catalysts") in the lab to "activate" (typically to generate free radicals) small molecules along a synthetic pathway. If you draw glycerine, or any glycol, over a heated element you will generate products like formaldehyde. Inhaled formaldehyde is a health hazard; often associated with cancer. The flavorings are often aldehydes and ketones and are even more likely to generate free radicals, which are implicated to an even greater degree with triggering cancers. The real social health concern with vaping vs smoking is while we have a hundred years worth of statistical data on smoking - we only are just now guessing at the "well, it's better than smoking" conclusion with vaping.

Aelinsaar 10y ago
It's a red hot element too, I've never seen a vaping device with anything like good control over more than some basic resistance parameters. Basically you can vape over a cherry red wire, or a dull red wire. IIRC that's well over 800 degrees, which is past "vaping" in any real sense.
- ttrmw 10y ago
  This isn't really true - elements are cleaned at red-hot temperatures, sure, but they never reach anything like that temperature when saturated with liquid.
- Domenic_S 10y ago
  Temperature-control mode has been available for a couple years now. http://vaping360.com/temperature-control-a-vaping-revolution/ http://vaping360.com/temperature-control-a-vaping-revolution...
  - daveguy 10y ago
    But it is not a requirement, which maybe it should be for safety. It is pretty obvious that cooked and inhaled chemicals should be under FDA regulation. What current regulations are proposed? A warning sticker? Restricting vape sellers from calling their products "perfectly safe" until more evidence is available. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
    - snuxoll 10y ago
      Marketing and labeling restrictions are something most of the vaping community could support, as well as requirements to list ingredients used in liquids. The burdensome fees to get a product through regulatory approval is another matter entirely and could effectively destroy the harm reduction (not elimination) these products can provide over cigarettes.
      - Aelinsaar 10y ago
        Yeah, this isn't the way to go, especially when the other option for people will be cigarettes. We have to be honest though, about the popularity of vaping beyond the community of ex-smokers, and the concern for that growing group. If you're coming at this as a non-smoker, the "less harmful than ciggies" doesn't work so well.
        snuxoll 10y ago
        > and the concern for that growing group Human beings are wired to do drugs, all throughout history we have sought ways to get high. On the face of it, nicotine itself isn't any worse than caffeine (aside from the vasoconstriction) - both are highly addictive, but alone without any other substances aiding in the addiction it is relatively easy to quit. It really amuses me that as a society we are finally starting to end the war on drugs (slowly, but surely) yet because of the public opinion on cigarettes ANY alternative delivery system for nicotine is stigmatized. I don't smell after I've been around people that vape, and many people I've been around that quit smoking through e-cigs are substantially healthier than before - I think that alone is enough reason to incentivize these products. You aren't going to stop people from seeking pleasure, trying to "save the children" is almost universally nothing more than FUD to try to pass a political agenda. Are people going to pick up vaping without ever smoking a cigarette in the first place? Sure. But there was nothing stopping them from picking the worse alternative either, and I would much rather they don't. For all the talk the FDA makes about this being in the interest of protecting public health, I think it's going to do a lot more damage than good. Lastly, this is only going to hurt small businesses who have started a multi-billion dollar industry. Modern vaping hardware evolved from hand-made devices built from flashlights, a frightening time in the history of the community where ohms law was something anyone who wanted a satisfying experience was familiar with. Modern devices have substantially better safety features, and all of that is going to go away to satisfy the public perception. I hope the FDA is proud of themselves, they have condemned tens of thousands of people to death.
  - Aelinsaar 10y ago
    That's interesting, but it's not what I've seen people using. Most just have a resistance setting from 3.0-4.5, or something like that.
    - snuxoll 10y ago
      Not a resistance setting, a voltage or wattage setting. Resistance is fixed by the coil (ohms law) - most devices sold in the past couple years allow users to set a desired wattage, they read the resistance of the coil and determine the appropriate regulated voltage required to meet that wattage. The past year has seen an explosion of temperature controlled devices, but they require coils made out of specific metals (Ni-200 or stainless steel). Ni-200 is almost unilaterally a bad choice, one of those getting too hot releases noxious chemicals - so if the control chip in the device malfunctions (there have been reports of this) it is possible to have health repercussions. Stainless steel has been a good choice, overheating will just burn the cotton wicking - not good for you but compared to breathing air in urban centers for years it's not going to make a dent in your overall health.
- mistermann 10y ago
  I challenge you to show me a red hot element when being used with juice.
petra 10y ago
If the only purpose is create a myst of nicotine, aren't there other chemicals what could do that without creating free radicals, at least theoretically, and it's just a matter of searching for them ?
- ridgeguy 10y ago
  If it's only to make a nicotine mist, can't we use a simple ultrasonic fogger and get away from pyrolysis issues entirely?
revelation 10y ago
Thank god we have established just how cancerous some things are, because otherwise we would be having these kind of discussions about bananas and apples, as there sure are a lot of things out there that can be trivially proven to be cancerous. I take it you don't eat grilled stuff?

Aelinsaar 10y ago

It's a red hot element too, I've never seen a vaping device with anything like good control over more than some basic resistance parameters. Basically you can vape over a cherry red wire, or a dull red wire. IIRC that's well over 800 degrees, which is past "vaping" in any real sense.

ttrmw 10y ago
This isn't really true - elements are cleaned at red-hot temperatures, sure, but they never reach anything like that temperature when saturated with liquid.
Domenic_S 10y ago
Temperature-control mode has been available for a couple years now. http://vaping360.com/temperature-control-a-vaping-revolution/ http://vaping360.com/temperature-control-a-vaping-revolution...
- daveguy 10y ago
  But it is not a requirement, which maybe it should be for safety. It is pretty obvious that cooked and inhaled chemicals should be under FDA regulation. What current regulations are proposed? A warning sticker? Restricting vape sellers from calling their products "perfectly safe" until more evidence is available. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
  - snuxoll 10y ago
    Marketing and labeling restrictions are something most of the vaping community could support, as well as requirements to list ingredients used in liquids. The burdensome fees to get a product through regulatory approval is another matter entirely and could effectively destroy the harm reduction (not elimination) these products can provide over cigarettes.
    - Aelinsaar 10y ago
      Yeah, this isn't the way to go, especially when the other option for people will be cigarettes. We have to be honest though, about the popularity of vaping beyond the community of ex-smokers, and the concern for that growing group. If you're coming at this as a non-smoker, the "less harmful than ciggies" doesn't work so well.
      - snuxoll 10y ago
        > and the concern for that growing group Human beings are wired to do drugs, all throughout history we have sought ways to get high. On the face of it, nicotine itself isn't any worse than caffeine (aside from the vasoconstriction) - both are highly addictive, but alone without any other substances aiding in the addiction it is relatively easy to quit. It really amuses me that as a society we are finally starting to end the war on drugs (slowly, but surely) yet because of the public opinion on cigarettes ANY alternative delivery system for nicotine is stigmatized. I don't smell after I've been around people that vape, and many people I've been around that quit smoking through e-cigs are substantially healthier than before - I think that alone is enough reason to incentivize these products. You aren't going to stop people from seeking pleasure, trying to "save the children" is almost universally nothing more than FUD to try to pass a political agenda. Are people going to pick up vaping without ever smoking a cigarette in the first place? Sure. But there was nothing stopping them from picking the worse alternative either, and I would much rather they don't. For all the talk the FDA makes about this being in the interest of protecting public health, I think it's going to do a lot more damage than good. Lastly, this is only going to hurt small businesses who have started a multi-billion dollar industry. Modern vaping hardware evolved from hand-made devices built from flashlights, a frightening time in the history of the community where ohms law was something anyone who wanted a satisfying experience was familiar with. Modern devices have substantially better safety features, and all of that is going to go away to satisfy the public perception. I hope the FDA is proud of themselves, they have condemned tens of thousands of people to death.
- Aelinsaar 10y ago
  That's interesting, but it's not what I've seen people using. Most just have a resistance setting from 3.0-4.5, or something like that.
  - snuxoll 10y ago
    Not a resistance setting, a voltage or wattage setting. Resistance is fixed by the coil (ohms law) - most devices sold in the past couple years allow users to set a desired wattage, they read the resistance of the coil and determine the appropriate regulated voltage required to meet that wattage. The past year has seen an explosion of temperature controlled devices, but they require coils made out of specific metals (Ni-200 or stainless steel). Ni-200 is almost unilaterally a bad choice, one of those getting too hot releases noxious chemicals - so if the control chip in the device malfunctions (there have been reports of this) it is possible to have health repercussions. Stainless steel has been a good choice, overheating will just burn the cotton wicking - not good for you but compared to breathing air in urban centers for years it's not going to make a dent in your overall health.
mistermann 10y ago
I challenge you to show me a red hot element when being used with juice.

petra 10y ago

If the only purpose is create a myst of nicotine, aren't there other chemicals what could do that without creating free radicals, at least theoretically, and it's just a matter of searching for them ?

ridgeguy 10y ago
If it's only to make a nicotine mist, can't we use a simple ultrasonic fogger and get away from pyrolysis issues entirely?

revelation 10y ago

Thank god we have established just how cancerous some things are, because otherwise we would be having these kind of discussions about bananas and apples, as there sure are a lot of things out there that can be trivially proven to be cancerous. I take it you don't eat grilled stuff?