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> Illegal immigration costs American taxpayers between 88 and 100 billion dollars It seems to me they're the ones doing a lot of the manual labor in this coun

by atomi 10y ago

> Illegal immigration costs American taxpayers between 88 and 100 billion dollars It seems to me they're the ones doing a lot of the manual labor in this country. Does that account for the rental income they pay to landlords that in turn pay property taxes? How about sales taxes? Or taxes paid using fake or shared social security numbers? I know some people that may have been illegal or visa overstays at some point who eventually became citizens. Their economic activity didn't change much and their children are heading to UC colleges. That doesn't seem like a burden to me. Interesting too that the states with the most illegal immigrants are the largest in terms of GDP. And by the way, the majority of immigrants from south of the border are Christians just looking for work and a better life; if that's worth anything to you. It's a shame that there are people that think building a wall is going to solve their problems. It won't.

rjeli 10y ago
> Does that account for the rental income they pay to landlords that in turn pay property taxes? How about sales taxes? Or taxes paid using fake or shared social security numbers? Yes. Total federal receipts, including income, social security, and employer taxes total 9 billion. State and local taxes, including property and sales taxes total 4 billion. http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-ille... By the way, the implication that I am simply prejudiced against the immigrants is not well received. There is a measurable economic burden, on the order of $1,000 per American household. Please do not make such accusations.
- atomi 10y ago
  You're wrong that illegal immigrants are a burden. You say that you don't like the implication of being prejudiced but you use a source designated as a hate group by SPLC[1] Illegal immigrants do not qualify for the majority of social services. "The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a small percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions"[2] So, illegal immigrants do hard manual labor for little pay and zero or close to zero benefits and you come along and try to convince people of the opposite. What do you call that if not prejudiced? Were you just misinformed? Also, here is a map of US ancestry and I think it's relevant because it makes it clear that almost all Americans have foreign ancestry, including you. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_for_American_Immigration_Reform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_for_American_Immigr... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_imm... [3] http://i.imgur.com/OMflDfl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/OMflDfl.jpg
  - rjeli 10y ago
    The "hate group" label from the SPLC has been reduced to a label used for any right wing or socially conservative organization. Ben Carson and the Family Research Council have both been labeled as hate groups, when neither have promoted hatred in an organized manner. Here is a paper published by the Congressional Budget Office: https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/110th-congress-2007-2008/reports/12-6-immigration.pdf https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/110th-congress-2007-... It is a meta-analysis of this type of study, and although they do not draw a conclusion, the numbers reported are in line with the FAIR article. Finally, I am still frustrated by the implication of your final remark. I am proud of the American immigrant heritage, and am in full support of legal immigration. Not only that, but this is exactly the type of accusation that started the debate in the parent - you are convinced that I am racist against foreigners, that I will be ashamed if you bring up my foreign ancestry, when this could not be further from the truth, and only serves to simplify my position so that it can be dismissed more easily. Good day, sir.
    - atomi 10y ago
      No where does it say illegal immigrants are a $1000+ per household burden. And none of the studies are even remotely in line with your original source. The CBO report shows that in most studies illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than what they receive in benefits. Other studies show that to be slightly less with some variance. However many of those studies make arbitrary assumptions on tax compliance and may not account for related economic activity. Your wanton misrepresentation of facts makes for a very poor case against your prejudice and for your claim of benevolence towards immigrants.
      - Chris2048 10y ago
        The burden is on you to prove prejudice or benevolence. As it would require more than a little insight into motivation, I can't see how you could meet the burden. I also think the (unwarranted) is targeted enough to break HN rules.
        10y ago

by atomi 10y ago

rjeli 10y ago

> Does that account for the rental income they pay to landlords that in turn pay property taxes? How about sales taxes? Or taxes paid using fake or shared social security numbers? Yes. Total federal receipts, including income, social security, and employer taxes total 9 billion. State and local taxes, including property and sales taxes total 4 billion. http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-ille... By the way, the implication that I am simply prejudiced against the immigrants is not well received. There is a measurable economic burden, on the order of $1,000 per American household. Please do not make such accusations.

atomi 10y ago
You're wrong that illegal immigrants are a burden. You say that you don't like the implication of being prejudiced but you use a source designated as a hate group by SPLC[1] Illegal immigrants do not qualify for the majority of social services. "The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a small percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions"[2] So, illegal immigrants do hard manual labor for little pay and zero or close to zero benefits and you come along and try to convince people of the opposite. What do you call that if not prejudiced? Were you just misinformed? Also, here is a map of US ancestry and I think it's relevant because it makes it clear that almost all Americans have foreign ancestry, including you. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_for_American_Immigration_Reform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_for_American_Immigr... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_imm... [3] http://i.imgur.com/OMflDfl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/OMflDfl.jpg
- rjeli 10y ago
  The "hate group" label from the SPLC has been reduced to a label used for any right wing or socially conservative organization. Ben Carson and the Family Research Council have both been labeled as hate groups, when neither have promoted hatred in an organized manner. Here is a paper published by the Congressional Budget Office: https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/110th-congress-2007-2008/reports/12-6-immigration.pdf https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/110th-congress-2007-... It is a meta-analysis of this type of study, and although they do not draw a conclusion, the numbers reported are in line with the FAIR article. Finally, I am still frustrated by the implication of your final remark. I am proud of the American immigrant heritage, and am in full support of legal immigration. Not only that, but this is exactly the type of accusation that started the debate in the parent - you are convinced that I am racist against foreigners, that I will be ashamed if you bring up my foreign ancestry, when this could not be further from the truth, and only serves to simplify my position so that it can be dismissed more easily. Good day, sir.
  - atomi 10y ago
    No where does it say illegal immigrants are a $1000+ per household burden. And none of the studies are even remotely in line with your original source. The CBO report shows that in most studies illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than what they receive in benefits. Other studies show that to be slightly less with some variance. However many of those studies make arbitrary assumptions on tax compliance and may not account for related economic activity. Your wanton misrepresentation of facts makes for a very poor case against your prejudice and for your claim of benevolence towards immigrants.
    - Chris2048 10y ago
      The burden is on you to prove prejudice or benevolence. As it would require more than a little insight into motivation, I can't see how you could meet the burden. I also think the (unwarranted) is targeted enough to break HN rules.
      - 10y ago