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Why is it bizarre? It is a dead-simple, relatively efficient storage mechanism that could potentially coexist with municipal-scale reservoir systems (thus gaini

by __jal 11y ago

Why is it bizarre? It is a dead-simple, relatively efficient storage mechanism that could potentially coexist with municipal-scale reservoir systems (thus gaining cost efficiencies). Sure, Kansas, US is not the first place one would look to build one. But most of the world is not Kansas. To flip that around, there exist applications where battery storage isn't reasonable. Is it thus also bizarre to bring batteries?

toomuchtodo 11y ago
I can drop cargo containers full of Tesla Powerpacks anywhere in the world. I cannot build hydro pumped storage just anywhere.
- __jal 10y ago
  ...And? You're not answering: > To flip that around, there exist applications where battery storage isn't reasonable. Is it thus also bizarre to bring batteries? The post I was replying to called talking about hydro storage "bizarre". I was pointing out that it isn't. The logic here seems analogous to saying that compact cars suck because you can't use them as a dump truck.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    My argument is that battery storage will slowly become better than all other energy storage methods as the price comes down. Its also helpful that it can be transported and colocated anywhere necessary.
ghshephard 10y ago
I'm curious - can you name a scenario in which battery storage isn't reasonable? It seems to me that once we hit the cost/price/weight/density points, they are a solution to pretty much any problem of power storage.
- yxhuvud 10y ago
  Seasonal imbalances, as stated otherwise in thread. Image you have no sun for a month each year. Good luck building enough batteries to handle that. The strong part of pumped hydropower is that it scales really really well even if the baseline efficiency isn't stellar.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    This is a roughly 12 hour reservoir: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9207263,-86.3978435,18314m/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9207263,-86.3978435,18314m/d... It's a big power station, 1.8 GW, but is only providing service to portion of consumers in Michigan. Making it 10 times bigger would probably be doable but it wouldn't be trivial. It's also one of the better places on the planet to build a single reservoir system (otherwise you need 2 enormous reservoirs). I wonder if the answer to seasonal variation will be to make fuel in the summer.
  - xbmcuser 10y ago
    A larger connected world grid could solve some of the problems 10 years or so ago I read some articles of producing solar power in Africa and then using it in Europe.

by __jal 11y ago

toomuchtodo 11y ago

I can drop cargo containers full of Tesla Powerpacks anywhere in the world. I cannot build hydro pumped storage just anywhere.

__jal 10y ago
...And? You're not answering: > To flip that around, there exist applications where battery storage isn't reasonable. Is it thus also bizarre to bring batteries? The post I was replying to called talking about hydro storage "bizarre". I was pointing out that it isn't. The logic here seems analogous to saying that compact cars suck because you can't use them as a dump truck.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  My argument is that battery storage will slowly become better than all other energy storage methods as the price comes down. Its also helpful that it can be transported and colocated anywhere necessary.

ghshephard 10y ago

I'm curious - can you name a scenario in which battery storage isn't reasonable? It seems to me that once we hit the cost/price/weight/density points, they are a solution to pretty much any problem of power storage.

yxhuvud 10y ago
Seasonal imbalances, as stated otherwise in thread. Image you have no sun for a month each year. Good luck building enough batteries to handle that. The strong part of pumped hydropower is that it scales really really well even if the baseline efficiency isn't stellar.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  This is a roughly 12 hour reservoir: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9207263,-86.3978435,18314m/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9207263,-86.3978435,18314m/d... It's a big power station, 1.8 GW, but is only providing service to portion of consumers in Michigan. Making it 10 times bigger would probably be doable but it wouldn't be trivial. It's also one of the better places on the planet to build a single reservoir system (otherwise you need 2 enormous reservoirs). I wonder if the answer to seasonal variation will be to make fuel in the summer.
- xbmcuser 10y ago
  A larger connected world grid could solve some of the problems 10 years or so ago I read some articles of producing solar power in Africa and then using it in Europe.