5 ms·

> Finding someone to ask them a question is not harassment. Refusing to talk to a person's lawyer, then saying "we will be attempting to talk to this person wi

by zyxley 10y ago

> Finding someone to ask them a question is not harassment. Refusing to talk to a person's lawyer, then saying "we will be attempting to talk to this person without a lawyer present", is absolutely harassment.

jack9 10y ago
I don't think so. I mean, is there precedent?
- zyxley 10y ago
  Why not? > I mean, is there precedent? For what? FBI agents harassing people? Just look at my comment about Hemingway.
  - shimon 10y ago
    I think he meant a legal precedent defining whether the following constitutes harassment: > Refusing to talk to a person's lawyer, then saying "we will be attempting to talk to this person without a lawyer present" IANAL, but it seems like it's OK for an FBI agent to say they'd prefer to talk to someone in person without a lawyer. It's not OK for them to coerce someone into talking without a lawyer, but it doesn't seem like that has happened here. I understand the author's fears, but the real issue seems to be the largely unchecked potential of the FBI to inflict harm upon specific citizens for any reason, not their actual behavior in this case.
    - rayiner 10y ago
      It's de jure unethical for another lawyer to directly contact someone who has a lawyer. I would say it is de facto unethical for law enforcement agent to try and end-run around someone's lawyer. That undermines the specific roles law enforcement agents and lawyers have within the justice system.
  - jack9 10y ago
    I was talking about speaking to a person of interest instead of directly with their counsel (counsel without a case isn't legal counsel, in many US contexts depending on local legislation and interpretation).
rbobby 10y ago
Of whom? The lawyer? It couldn't possibly be of the woman because they had yet to make contact with her.
- llamataboot 10y ago
  So if I call your partner and tell them that I'm going to find you and beat you up, I'm not harassing you, because I haven't contacted you specifically?
  - ryanlol 10y ago
    This is not what happened here.
rhino369 10y ago
It is unethical if you are an attorney, but I really don't think it is harassment.

by zyxley 10y ago

jack9 10y ago

I don't think so. I mean, is there precedent?

zyxley 10y ago
Why not? > I mean, is there precedent? For what? FBI agents harassing people? Just look at my comment about Hemingway.
- shimon 10y ago
  I think he meant a legal precedent defining whether the following constitutes harassment: > Refusing to talk to a person's lawyer, then saying "we will be attempting to talk to this person without a lawyer present" IANAL, but it seems like it's OK for an FBI agent to say they'd prefer to talk to someone in person without a lawyer. It's not OK for them to coerce someone into talking without a lawyer, but it doesn't seem like that has happened here. I understand the author's fears, but the real issue seems to be the largely unchecked potential of the FBI to inflict harm upon specific citizens for any reason, not their actual behavior in this case.
  - rayiner 10y ago
    It's de jure unethical for another lawyer to directly contact someone who has a lawyer. I would say it is de facto unethical for law enforcement agent to try and end-run around someone's lawyer. That undermines the specific roles law enforcement agents and lawyers have within the justice system.
- jack9 10y ago
  I was talking about speaking to a person of interest instead of directly with their counsel (counsel without a case isn't legal counsel, in many US contexts depending on local legislation and interpretation).

rbobby 10y ago

Of whom? The lawyer? It couldn't possibly be of the woman because they had yet to make contact with her.

llamataboot 10y ago
So if I call your partner and tell them that I'm going to find you and beat you up, I'm not harassing you, because I haven't contacted you specifically?
- ryanlol 10y ago
  This is not what happened here.

rhino369 10y ago

It is unethical if you are an attorney, but I really don't think it is harassment.