5 ms·

When it costs upwards of $100,000 to attend, you better be thinking of what you're getting for your money. Unfortunately in America it doesn't come free.

by kdamken 10y ago

lintiness 10y ago
nothing's "free", not even college in european utopia.
- throwaway049 10y ago
  Undergrad tuition is free to the student in some European countries. As you wrote "free", I concede that the cost is picked up by the taxpayer. http://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/student-finance/how-much-does-it-cost-study-europe http://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/student-finance/...
- kdamken 10y ago
  It's way more "free" in Europe than the US though.
  - lintiness 10y ago
    is it? how does one measure that? do they have some super secret method to running a university more cheaply than the us? is anything sacrificed in so doing? how do reputations stack up? these are complicated issues, and pretending one's free and the other's an outrageous ripoff is a ridiculous simplification.
    - umanwizard 10y ago
      OECD expenditures on tertiary education per student in 2011: http://imgur.com/5brGGWw http://imgur.com/5brGGWw [1] The U.S. is an outlier. [1] Source: http://www.oecd.org/edu/EAG2014-Indicator%20B1%20(eng).pdf http://www.oecd.org/edu/EAG2014-Indicator%20B1%20(eng).pdf
    - kdamken 10y ago
      Well some quick googling shows that for a lot of EU countries EU students don't have to pay tuition fees: http://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees http://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees
emodendroket 10y ago
Yes, but this is a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.
criddell 10y ago
My oldest daughter is just entering high school and we are indeed thinking about maximizing the return on education investment. I went to school for computer science and while I have a very good and easy life, I regret not spending more time studying the humanities. I've told her about this hoping to provide another perspective than what she gets at school where they push STEM relentlessly. An investment in education should pay off in ways other than a financial return.
- cableshaft 10y ago
  Isn't that what general education is for? I majored in Computer Science, but I took classes on Japanese, Theater, Poly Sci, Criminal Justice, Communications, Literature, and probably a couple others I can't remember right now. In several of those subjects I took two or three classes.
  - umanwizard 10y ago
    In countries with a functioning education system (take your pick), this is what high school is for. Edit for downvoters: In France, this was the high-school leaving exam (literary track) in history for 2015. Four hours to write an essay on each of the following two topics: 1. "South and East Asia: The challenges of population and growth." 2. "The paths of power: The United States and the world at the end of the 1960s." (Source: [1]) And this is graded much harder than, say, the A.P. world history exam, which a small minority of students in the U.S. take. Subjects are taught by people who got the highest scores on extremely competitive exams covering their subject areas, often after a Master's degree in the subject. History school-leaving exam in the U.S.: whatever easy, probably multiple-choice final your bored and undereducated teacher decided to give you in an hour-long class period. [1]: http://www.lemonde.fr/bac-lycee/article/2015/06/18/bacs-s-es-et-l-2015-decouvrez-les-sujets-d-histoire-geographie_4656637_4401499.html http://www.lemonde.fr/bac-lycee/article/2015/06/18/bacs-s-es...
    - morgante 10y ago
      I went to a very elite high school in the US and my final exams included questions similar to that (the IB). Some of my teachers literally wrote the textbooks on their subjects. That doesn't mean my high school classes were anywhere near the depth or intensity of my college classes. While high school provided me with a solid foundation in all the disciplines, it's not set up to go in depth on specific areas. As a computer science major in college, I have had the opportunity to do in-depth, semester-long investigations of the Armenian genocide, the evolution of interactive media, laughter in theater, the 2008 financial crisis, Arab history in China, the philosophy of consciousness and dozens of other interesting subjects. These are not at all equivalent to what's offered at even the best high schools in the world and I wouldn't give it up to have a slightly cheaper or more efficient college career.

When it costs upwards of $100,000 to attend, you better be thinking of what you're getting for your money. Unfortunately in America it doesn't come free.

by kdamken 10y ago

When it costs upwards of $100,000 to attend, you better be thinking of what you're getting for your money. Unfortunately in America it doesn't come free.

lintiness 10y ago

nothing's "free", not even college in european utopia.

throwaway049 10y ago
Undergrad tuition is free to the student in some European countries. As you wrote "free", I concede that the cost is picked up by the taxpayer. http://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/student-finance/how-much-does-it-cost-study-europe http://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/student-finance/...
kdamken 10y ago
It's way more "free" in Europe than the US though.
- lintiness 10y ago
  is it? how does one measure that? do they have some super secret method to running a university more cheaply than the us? is anything sacrificed in so doing? how do reputations stack up? these are complicated issues, and pretending one's free and the other's an outrageous ripoff is a ridiculous simplification.
  - umanwizard 10y ago
    OECD expenditures on tertiary education per student in 2011: http://imgur.com/5brGGWw http://imgur.com/5brGGWw [1] The U.S. is an outlier. [1] Source: http://www.oecd.org/edu/EAG2014-Indicator%20B1%20(eng).pdf http://www.oecd.org/edu/EAG2014-Indicator%20B1%20(eng).pdf
  - kdamken 10y ago
    Well some quick googling shows that for a lot of EU countries EU students don't have to pay tuition fees: http://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees http://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees

emodendroket 10y ago

Yes, but this is a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.

criddell 10y ago

My oldest daughter is just entering high school and we are indeed thinking about maximizing the return on education investment. I went to school for computer science and while I have a very good and easy life, I regret not spending more time studying the humanities. I've told her about this hoping to provide another perspective than what she gets at school where they push STEM relentlessly. An investment in education should pay off in ways other than a financial return.

cableshaft 10y ago
Isn't that what general education is for? I majored in Computer Science, but I took classes on Japanese, Theater, Poly Sci, Criminal Justice, Communications, Literature, and probably a couple others I can't remember right now. In several of those subjects I took two or three classes.
- umanwizard 10y ago
  In countries with a functioning education system (take your pick), this is what high school is for. Edit for downvoters: In France, this was the high-school leaving exam (literary track) in history for 2015. Four hours to write an essay on each of the following two topics: 1. "South and East Asia: The challenges of population and growth." 2. "The paths of power: The United States and the world at the end of the 1960s." (Source: [1]) And this is graded much harder than, say, the A.P. world history exam, which a small minority of students in the U.S. take. Subjects are taught by people who got the highest scores on extremely competitive exams covering their subject areas, often after a Master's degree in the subject. History school-leaving exam in the U.S.: whatever easy, probably multiple-choice final your bored and undereducated teacher decided to give you in an hour-long class period. [1]: http://www.lemonde.fr/bac-lycee/article/2015/06/18/bacs-s-es-et-l-2015-decouvrez-les-sujets-d-histoire-geographie_4656637_4401499.html http://www.lemonde.fr/bac-lycee/article/2015/06/18/bacs-s-es...
  - morgante 10y ago
    I went to a very elite high school in the US and my final exams included questions similar to that (the IB). Some of my teachers literally wrote the textbooks on their subjects. That doesn't mean my high school classes were anywhere near the depth or intensity of my college classes. While high school provided me with a solid foundation in all the disciplines, it's not set up to go in depth on specific areas. As a computer science major in college, I have had the opportunity to do in-depth, semester-long investigations of the Armenian genocide, the evolution of interactive media, laughter in theater, the 2008 financial crisis, Arab history in China, the philosophy of consciousness and dozens of other interesting subjects. These are not at all equivalent to what's offered at even the best high schools in the world and I wouldn't give it up to have a slightly cheaper or more efficient college career.