7 ms·

Will people stop confusing what a safe space and a trigger warning is? Safe spaces are spaces like a student LGBT association's own space and not a class room.

Will people stop confusing what a safe space and a trigger warning is? Safe spaces are spaces like a student LGBT association's own space and not a class room. If you think you should have the right to get up in someone's face to 'debate' their sexual orientation or gender identity in every venue then I can't say I agree with you. Some places should be safe spaces where minorities (like LGBT) can be free to discuss matters among themselves for the same reason people need the same sort of space to discuss private matters with family/friends. As for trigger warnings, the fact PTSD does exist means you do need to take that into consideration. I do agree they're overused but beyond that point I think a trigger warning isn't any worse than a buying a DVD with an MPAA rating. If additional information is too much for you maybe you ought not be in college because last time I checked that's all you get is information overload (the paperwork alone to get into a college is mountainous even).

noir_lord 10y ago
Trigger warnings are a good idea taken to a bad extreme. Life: May contain events you find distressing.
askyourmother 10y ago
Trigger warning: University should be about open minds, not closed minds tucked away in "safe spaces".
- dagw 10y ago
  Absolutely, and it's much easier to open your mind if you feel safe that you won't be punished and/or ridiculed for your ideas.
  - askyourmother 10y ago
    Errm, how will you open your mind, if you are able to discuss with others, to read challenging ideas, to take on-board another point of view, when you are hermetically sealed in a "safe space"? Surely they are unsafe spaces, as they close off the world, fostering very singular view points?
    - dagw 10y ago
      Safe doesn't mean sealed. It just means safe. Let's say you want to learn to fight. Wouldn't you rather do it by going to a professionally run 'safe' MMA gym where you can get guidance, learn from your mistakes and try different things safe in the knowledge that no one is going to cave your skull in just because you can't yet defend yourself. Surely that 'safe' environment is a much better environment to learn in than just going to 'unsafe' biker bars and picking fights with random people. I'd even wager that you'll learn more and faster in the safe environment than the unsafe environment.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - iofj 10y ago
    Easier than if you're forbidden from opening your mind at all ? Safe spaces are about preventing people from saying what they think. That's their purpose.
    - dagw 10y ago
      I see it more like setting some common ground rules. If you want to rugby tackle people you won't be welcome to basketball practice. Doesn't mean you're being prevented from rugby tackling people, just that everyone would be happier if you went to rugby practice instead.
lujim 10y ago
How does someone get PTSD these days? It was originally the territory of civilians and soldiers who spent an extended period of time in an active combat area. I'm not saying that other things can't lead to PTSD, but if it becomes too watered down then we would need a new term for the physical and mental symptoms that a soldier might experience after 6 months or a year in daily front line combat.
- kaitai 10y ago
  Rape is a common one.
  - mschuster91 10y ago
    America is not India. Btw, is there any serious explanation other than blatant racism why rape is so prevalent in India, e.g. compared to China where the male/female ratio is grossly on the male side...
    - Can_Not 10y ago
      India has more than 10 ethinic regions, languages, etc. Many places in India are tribal, without internet, without running water, without roads. There are also many cities that have infrastructure. India is probably as ethinically diverse (or even more diverse) as Europe. When access to education and infrastructure expands to the darkest corners of India, the situation will improve. Pre-existing citizens tend to be stuck in their old ways.
      - elthran 10y ago
        > Pre-existing citizens tend to be stuck in their old ways Most people's old ways don't include raping people
  - ddeck 10y ago
    I'm not sure why you're downvoted. Sexual assault frequently leads to PTSD: >One study that examined PTSD symptoms among women who were raped found that almost all (94 out of 100) women experienced these symptoms during the two weeks immediately following the rape. Nine months later, about 30 out of 100 of the women were still reporting this pattern of symptoms [1] And is depressingly prevalent: >Nearly 1 in 5 (18.3%) women and 1 in 71 men (1.4%) reported experiencing rape at some time in their lives. [2] [1] http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/PTSD-overview/women/sexual-assault-females.asp http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/PTSD-overview/women/sexual-ass... [2] http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/SV-DataSheet-a.pdf http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/SV-DataSheet-a.pdf
manyxcxi 10y ago
While I agree that there should be some places that are safe spaces, especially for people at risk of harassment/worse, it's become a tool for silencing dissenting opinions on the worst campuses, and simply overused in general. Trigger warning are absolute BS. If half as many of these kids that think they have it actually have PTSD then we are doing something VERY wrong to our kids. PTSD is the new ADHD. The problem is that that they have not been taught that you can at your core hate what someone is saying, and want to disagree violently, and still have a debate or discussion continue without shutting down. They have been taught from early on that just because they have a thought, it must be their truth- so everyone is running around following their own religion. Life doesn't have warning labels, shit happens, a parent's job is to raise a child who can handle life's trials (mostly) on their own. Parents are mistaking their kids for friends and doing none of the hard work of getting a child in control of their thoughts and emotions. My 3 year old when angry/upset/injured generally resets by stopping, taking a deep breath, and gathering himself mentally. He does this on his own without prompting most of the time. My 18 month old does the same with prompting. It wasn't easy or fun to take a wailing baby and coach them through calming themselves down, but now they can do it- and when life hits my 3 year old in the face, often literally, he practices tools to calm himself down and regroup that these 'adults' can't even manage.
- mfringel 10y ago
  So you agree that some places should be safe spaces?
  - mschuster91 10y ago
    Some places (e.g. shelters for abused people) must be "safe spaces" to protect their occupants. Common public places however must remain open for debate and free speech (of course limited by laws prohibiting libel, Holocaust denial etc).
    - DanBC 10y ago
      > of course limited by laws prohibiting libel, Holocaust denial etc). And here we see the really tricky cultural clash problem. Some Americans and most Europeans will say that there are obvious limits to free speech - holocaust denial, hate speech, fighting words, etc. But there's a sizable number of Americans (and probably a smaller number of Europeans) who'll say there should be almost no limits to freedom of speech. (Maybe a ban on distributing images of child sexual abuse, but just about everything else is fair game). Here's an English politician - Luciana Berger, showing a sample of the anti-semitic hate speech she regularly receives. Some people say that's clearly not acceptable and that Twitter should ban those users (I tend to agree with them). But a sizable number of people say it's fair enough - she's a politician, she's in the public eye, she can just block those users herself, she should put up with it, she should grow a thicker skin, etc. https://twitter.com/lucianaberger/status/725635171295330304/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw https://twitter.com/lucianaberger/status/725635171295330304/... Working out which laws are useful to follow, and which are probably a bit too restrictive, would probably be helpful. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-emirates-court-idUSKCN0PA14120150630 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-emirates-court-idUSKCN0PA1... Or insult my old employer, even if I'm not in the country when I do so? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/unitedarabemirates/11453658/American-arrested-in-UAE-after-criticising-employer-on-Facebook.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/uniteda...
mistermann 10y ago
I can buy into that if we can also have the rest of space "safe" for the expression of ideas, as opposed to this phenomenon of SJW's ruining public presentations attended by hundreds of people by screaming "take your hate elsewhere" and other such childish nonsense.
- norea-armozel 10y ago
  I have yet to find an accused SJW supporting what you've said. Not even on Twitter or Tumblr.
forgetsusername 10y ago
>As for trigger warnings, the fact PTSD does exist means you do need to take that into consideration Maybe if I didn't see "trigger warning" and "PTSD" (outside the context of battle) thrown around multiple times a day I could take both more seriously.
pliny 10y ago
What you're describing is the motte[1] of 'safe space' and 'trigger warning', that is, you are presenting a definition whose application almost no one could object to (of course I don't want to ban minorities or LGBT associating with each other, and choosing not to associate with other people), but the real life usage of the term (the bailey) is different, at least the usage that Bloomberg is referring to. Yale and U of Missouri recently (last year) served as examples of using 'safe space' to constrain other people's freedom of association. Demanding that the entire university serve as a safe space (even under your definition) is completely different from demanding that there exist a safe space somewhere in the university. The latter may as well be a foregone conclusion, nobody is going to force the student LGBT association off of campus, but the former means the LGBT association has a mandate to censor any student anywhere on campus. [1] as described here among other places: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/03/all-in-all-another-brick-in-the-motte/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/03/all-in-all-another-bric...
- Symmetry 10y ago
  The same author also gave a very persuasive defence of trigger warnings here: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/30/the-wonderful-thing-about-triggers/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/30/the-wonderful-thing-abo...

noir_lord 10y ago

Trigger warnings are a good idea taken to a bad extreme. Life: May contain events you find distressing.

askyourmother 10y ago

Trigger warning: University should be about open minds, not closed minds tucked away in "safe spaces".

dagw 10y ago
Absolutely, and it's much easier to open your mind if you feel safe that you won't be punished and/or ridiculed for your ideas.
- askyourmother 10y ago
  Errm, how will you open your mind, if you are able to discuss with others, to read challenging ideas, to take on-board another point of view, when you are hermetically sealed in a "safe space"? Surely they are unsafe spaces, as they close off the world, fostering very singular view points?
  - dagw 10y ago
    Safe doesn't mean sealed. It just means safe. Let's say you want to learn to fight. Wouldn't you rather do it by going to a professionally run 'safe' MMA gym where you can get guidance, learn from your mistakes and try different things safe in the knowledge that no one is going to cave your skull in just because you can't yet defend yourself. Surely that 'safe' environment is a much better environment to learn in than just going to 'unsafe' biker bars and picking fights with random people. I'd even wager that you'll learn more and faster in the safe environment than the unsafe environment.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- iofj 10y ago
  Easier than if you're forbidden from opening your mind at all ? Safe spaces are about preventing people from saying what they think. That's their purpose.
  - dagw 10y ago
    I see it more like setting some common ground rules. If you want to rugby tackle people you won't be welcome to basketball practice. Doesn't mean you're being prevented from rugby tackling people, just that everyone would be happier if you went to rugby practice instead.

lujim 10y ago

How does someone get PTSD these days? It was originally the territory of civilians and soldiers who spent an extended period of time in an active combat area. I'm not saying that other things can't lead to PTSD, but if it becomes too watered down then we would need a new term for the physical and mental symptoms that a soldier might experience after 6 months or a year in daily front line combat.

kaitai 10y ago
Rape is a common one.
- mschuster91 10y ago
  America is not India. Btw, is there any serious explanation other than blatant racism why rape is so prevalent in India, e.g. compared to China where the male/female ratio is grossly on the male side...
  - Can_Not 10y ago
    India has more than 10 ethinic regions, languages, etc. Many places in India are tribal, without internet, without running water, without roads. There are also many cities that have infrastructure. India is probably as ethinically diverse (or even more diverse) as Europe. When access to education and infrastructure expands to the darkest corners of India, the situation will improve. Pre-existing citizens tend to be stuck in their old ways.
    - elthran 10y ago
      > Pre-existing citizens tend to be stuck in their old ways Most people's old ways don't include raping people
- ddeck 10y ago
  I'm not sure why you're downvoted. Sexual assault frequently leads to PTSD: >One study that examined PTSD symptoms among women who were raped found that almost all (94 out of 100) women experienced these symptoms during the two weeks immediately following the rape. Nine months later, about 30 out of 100 of the women were still reporting this pattern of symptoms [1] And is depressingly prevalent: >Nearly 1 in 5 (18.3%) women and 1 in 71 men (1.4%) reported experiencing rape at some time in their lives. [2] [1] http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/PTSD-overview/women/sexual-assault-females.asp http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/PTSD-overview/women/sexual-ass... [2] http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/SV-DataSheet-a.pdf http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/SV-DataSheet-a.pdf

manyxcxi 10y ago

While I agree that there should be some places that are safe spaces, especially for people at risk of harassment/worse, it's become a tool for silencing dissenting opinions on the worst campuses, and simply overused in general. Trigger warning are absolute BS. If half as many of these kids that think they have it actually have PTSD then we are doing something VERY wrong to our kids. PTSD is the new ADHD. The problem is that that they have not been taught that you can at your core hate what someone is saying, and want to disagree violently, and still have a debate or discussion continue without shutting down. They have been taught from early on that just because they have a thought, it must be their truth- so everyone is running around following their own religion. Life doesn't have warning labels, shit happens, a parent's job is to raise a child who can handle life's trials (mostly) on their own. Parents are mistaking their kids for friends and doing none of the hard work of getting a child in control of their thoughts and emotions. My 3 year old when angry/upset/injured generally resets by stopping, taking a deep breath, and gathering himself mentally. He does this on his own without prompting most of the time. My 18 month old does the same with prompting. It wasn't easy or fun to take a wailing baby and coach them through calming themselves down, but now they can do it- and when life hits my 3 year old in the face, often literally, he practices tools to calm himself down and regroup that these 'adults' can't even manage.

mfringel 10y ago
So you agree that some places should be safe spaces?
- mschuster91 10y ago
  Some places (e.g. shelters for abused people) must be "safe spaces" to protect their occupants. Common public places however must remain open for debate and free speech (of course limited by laws prohibiting libel, Holocaust denial etc).
  - DanBC 10y ago
    > of course limited by laws prohibiting libel, Holocaust denial etc). And here we see the really tricky cultural clash problem. Some Americans and most Europeans will say that there are obvious limits to free speech - holocaust denial, hate speech, fighting words, etc. But there's a sizable number of Americans (and probably a smaller number of Europeans) who'll say there should be almost no limits to freedom of speech. (Maybe a ban on distributing images of child sexual abuse, but just about everything else is fair game). Here's an English politician - Luciana Berger, showing a sample of the anti-semitic hate speech she regularly receives. Some people say that's clearly not acceptable and that Twitter should ban those users (I tend to agree with them). But a sizable number of people say it's fair enough - she's a politician, she's in the public eye, she can just block those users herself, she should put up with it, she should grow a thicker skin, etc. https://twitter.com/lucianaberger/status/725635171295330304/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw https://twitter.com/lucianaberger/status/725635171295330304/... Working out which laws are useful to follow, and which are probably a bit too restrictive, would probably be helpful. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-emirates-court-idUSKCN0PA14120150630 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-emirates-court-idUSKCN0PA1... Or insult my old employer, even if I'm not in the country when I do so? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/unitedarabemirates/11453658/American-arrested-in-UAE-after-criticising-employer-on-Facebook.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/uniteda...

mistermann 10y ago

I can buy into that if we can also have the rest of space "safe" for the expression of ideas, as opposed to this phenomenon of SJW's ruining public presentations attended by hundreds of people by screaming "take your hate elsewhere" and other such childish nonsense.

norea-armozel 10y ago
I have yet to find an accused SJW supporting what you've said. Not even on Twitter or Tumblr.

forgetsusername 10y ago

>As for trigger warnings, the fact PTSD does exist means you do need to take that into consideration Maybe if I didn't see "trigger warning" and "PTSD" (outside the context of battle) thrown around multiple times a day I could take both more seriously.

pliny 10y ago

What you're describing is the motte[1] of 'safe space' and 'trigger warning', that is, you are presenting a definition whose application almost no one could object to (of course I don't want to ban minorities or LGBT associating with each other, and choosing not to associate with other people), but the real life usage of the term (the bailey) is different, at least the usage that Bloomberg is referring to. Yale and U of Missouri recently (last year) served as examples of using 'safe space' to constrain other people's freedom of association. Demanding that the entire university serve as a safe space (even under your definition) is completely different from demanding that there exist a safe space somewhere in the university. The latter may as well be a foregone conclusion, nobody is going to force the student LGBT association off of campus, but the former means the LGBT association has a mandate to censor any student anywhere on campus. [1] as described here among other places: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/03/all-in-all-another-brick-in-the-motte/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/03/all-in-all-another-bric...

Symmetry 10y ago
The same author also gave a very persuasive defence of trigger warnings here: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/30/the-wonderful-thing-about-triggers/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/30/the-wonderful-thing-abo...