14 ms·

Reddit and Facebook Veteran on How to Troubleshoot Troublemakers

155 points by ca98am79 11y ago

maxxxxx 11y ago
Nice article. From my experience the biggest troublemakers are often in management two layers or more above and have no discipline in making changes or throwing new ideas into the pipeline.
- gravity13 11y ago
  ha! Very same experience here, too. I was just working at a place where one of the designer-founders redesigned a page to look one way. Then three months later, he redesigned it again, to look back the old way. He actually put these into the pipeline, assigned it to different engineers, and there was no reasoning over choosing one way or the other. Both designs had the same functionality and the same glaring flaws. He just kept wavering and wouldn't even consider doing any user testing or A/B testing on it. Glad I don't work there anymore.
  - Benjammer 11y ago
    +1 for designer-founders mocking up & assigning UI changes purely to "keep things fresh"
    - sqldba 11y ago
      I think that's what goes on with the Azure portal.
  - morgante 11y ago
    > He just kept wavering and wouldn't even consider doing any user testing or A/B testing on it. That's why it's essential to pre-commit to a culture of testing everything. It's by far the best weapon you have against a founder with a terrible idea that they won't drop.
    - gravity13 10y ago
      Funny thing was this place did espouse "test everything" except it came in the form of our Product leads "test only the things I don't agree with." Which of course meant we were using all of our testing budget on dumb things.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
gravity13 11y ago
I got to disagree with the whole continuity over ingenuity trope. It's how I can continue to remain modern as an engineer, and if done correctly, leads to vast gains in cognitive complexity by delegating concerns to newfangled tools that handle it better. Sure, it's a bit less stable, but this is how we keep the industry moving quickly, and I hope managers see it more in terms of trading technical debts than a stubborn "oh great, you want to introduce another new tool!?"
- Declanomous 11y ago
  It's important to realize this is written from the perspective of an employer. For an employer, it is much more important that someone can easily take up the reins if something happens to you. From a companies perspective, it is best if their employees are easily replaceable. Employees that can't easily be replaced are expensive. They have the ability to command a higher salary and can force companies to do things they wouldn't otherwise do. From the perspective of an employee, the company is forcing you to stagnate and become someone that is easily replaced. I don't blame anyone for being insulted by this. The company is advancing their own interests at the cost of their own. Nobody enjoys being forced to do something. So while an employee forced to work in a certain way can be expected to be bent out of shape, so can an employer whose hand has been forced by an employee. The adage 'shit flows downhill' is true, and the intractable employee will soon find themselves swimming in it. A company may decide to cut their losses early if you are actively making your position harder to fill. From their perspective, the longer they wait, the more deeply entrenched you become. Companies value reliability. They want someone they can count on. The same goes for people. If your manager doesn't feel they can trust you, if they are consistently afraid that you will embarrass them, then you are a liability to them. If you aren't outright fired, you will be kept on a very short leash. There are a lot of benefits to toeing the company line, insulting as it may seem. Should you find yourself in the good graces of your manager (and by extension, the good graces of the company), you will enjoy a remarkable amount of autonomy. By being dependable (if not predictable), you gain job security and autonomy. You will find your suggestions are taken more seriously, as nobody is left to wonder what trick you have up your sleeve. I totally understand where you are coming from. I am always looking for better tools for the job at hand. Companies move slow, and technology moves fast, and it's easy to be left behind if you move at the speed of the company. Ingratiating yourself to your company takes time too. It could be years before you get to use a new technology, at which point an even better tool shows up. The company has the upper hand in this situation. Changes probably won't come quickly. If you find yourself in a position where you aren't happy with the way you are allowed to do your job, oftentimes the easiest way to solve the problem is to find a new job.
oneloop 11y ago
Great PR.
wccrawford 11y ago
She notes that she has a tendency to require that the solution work her way when coding. I wonder if she realizes she's doing the same when working with people's problems? Almost all of those solutions end with, "do it my way or get out." Not a collaborative coder? No room for you here. Not a people person? No room for you here. Want to use the latest technologies? No room for you here. For someone who wrote an entire blogpost about the benefits of troublemakers and how to integrate them, she doesn't seem very willing to actually work with them, just to make them work for her.
- jnbiche 11y ago
  > Not a collaborative coder? No room for you here. Not a people person? No room for you here. Want to use the latest technologies? No room for you here. That's corporate life in America. No room for individualism. But I've heard it's even worse in Japan, so there's that...
  - abc_lisper 11y ago
    Eh, Idk if it's that bad in US; if anything the other countries are worse. If you want to scratch that itch find a startup that uses latest and greatest stack.
  - Angostura 11y ago
    Of course there's room for individualism. But if you're going to make the rest of your coworkers lives a misery, you'll find that you'll be expressing your individualism in your own one-person startup.
    - jnbiche 11y ago
      How is doing something like re-writing a system in your off hours making your co-workers miserable? I mean sure, if you then proceed to bug your boss every day to adopt the new system after he carefully reviewed it and rejected it, I'm with you. And she lists several "harmful" practices like this. In short, taking initiative? Nope, we don't like that here in corporate America. Doing what you're told and minimize risk. Don't actually try to make us money or anything.
6stringmerc 11y ago
Having worked in several divergent fields as a Proposal Writer (aka Team Leader with Zero Authority) - health care, finance, and insurance - nearly none of these archetypes are exclusive to engineering or the tech sector. I think they are reasonable break-downs of classification as presented (Hermit, Nostalgia, Trend Chaser, and Smarty) which can be useful to consider in pretty much any professional, team environment. This article could be helpful to get a more relaxed, casual perspective of employees that can be frustrating. I've often joked that working in a fast paced, multi-deadline Proposal gig, it's like herding cats. Each team might have one or more of these troublemakers - or, worse yet, be the 'name / lead person' running the opportunity - and so learning techniques to work through the challenges became second nature. Always was a fan of Kevin Mitnick, and his guides on social engineering security can be resonably applied in manipulating team members for great good. YMMV.
cakeface 11y ago
>That guy who decides to rewrite an entire system in his off-hours in a new language without telling anyone else? I have worked with this person on more than one occasion and I would love to work with them again. Entire new products and verticals are often the result of such projects. Companies have such a hard time dealing with risk. They think that the only appropriate thing is to always minimize risk. "Look, I have minimized risk at every opportunity. I am doing a great job!" That's not true all the time though. When exploring new business models or in some other situations high risk activity should be preferred.
- tonecluster 11y ago
  She talks about risk/reward and acknowledging the benefit new tech can bring to an organization. Minimizing risk doesn't mean no risk. High risk regardless of reward should not be preferred; risk/reward discussions and reasonable decisions should be preferred.
- allengeorge 11y ago
  Sometimes that behavior arises because the person is bored, or they feel their skills aren't being utilized, or they feel like their concerns about an existing system are being minimized.
  - djsumdog 11y ago
    Yea, those people need to learn to work on their own stuff. I do so much of my own/oss work at work and am surprised at how everyone has always said I'm doing great and my stuff is always out faster and more tested than everyone else. ..expectations are low, and there's value in keeping it that way! :) (all my favoruite stuff has been stuff I've worked on for myself, that doesn't earn any money. I find almost all of it more worthwhile than any of the technical entrenched garbage I've written in the corporate world for the past decade of my life)
    - slig 11y ago
      I hope you realize that working on your own stuff at work can get you in trouble.
kazinator 11y ago
> THE HERMIT > [...] > NOSTALGIA JUNKIE > [...] > TREND CHASER > [...] If you enjoy this sort of "laundry list of named stereotypes" format, you might like "Academic Programmers: A Spotter's Guide": http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~elf/hack/academic.html http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~elf/hack/academic.html [1997] It's got more of them and they are funnier.
erikb 11y ago
About the hermit: Why isn't the first assumption to look into the company's own culture? I mean you can work on trust as much as you want. If there is no reason to have trust in the team the tactic will fail.
dimino 11y ago
This is a gold mine, I'm so glad to have found this article, thank you for sharing! I definitely evolved from "The Hermit" into what I am currently, some form of "Smartest in the Room"(I don't think I'm smarter, I just tend to think the way I came up with is best). Being a developer is a process! I'm incredibly interested when we stop pretending that everyone's a "rockstar" or whatever, and start talking about the problems that come up, and how to work through them. I'm only just now coming to the realization within the last few weeks that I need to be more open to alternative and intermediate solutions that aren't perfect, but solve the problem for the time being. Again, thanks for sharing!
Deimorz 11y ago
Pretty strange to describe Bethanye as a "Reddit veteran", especially leading the title with that. She worked at Reddit for less than a month.
- mbrutsch 11y ago
  You should know the routine by now. ;)
- amackera 11y ago
  I wonder what happened there?
  - MarkArts 11y ago
    From some minor googling it seems she didn't want to mixed up in Reddit's community problems at the time. http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/07/14/reddits-troubles-mount-as-chief-engineer-bethanye-blount-quits/ http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/07/14/reddits-troubles-mo...
- krisdol 11y ago
  Less than a month? That makes it a pretty misleading title.
studentrob 11y ago
> I remember several instances when it took a few deep breaths to keep me from kicking him out. But today he leads a team and triages the troublemakers he once was. Sometimes when you save a troublemaker, you’re saving a team they’re not yet on. What a saint. Seriously, it always felt funny to me when a team member was let go at the behest of one or a few individuals. Anyway, the way she says this leads me to believe she thinks she is more important than other people.
- eumoria 11y ago
  > Anyway, the way she says this leads me to believe she thinks she is more important than other people. She's a manager of course she thinks that.
  - studentrob 11y ago
    Well that's silly. All managers do not feel that way, and the salary sure isn't higher in many cases unless you're nearing the top of the organization. Being a manager is simply a different job function.
    - gravity13 10y ago
      This is where I feel like the title "project manager" ought to be reconsidered, perhaps to "project secretary." That way, it's a bit more clear there's less of a hierarchy and more of a duty.
      - studentrob 10y ago
        People go on power trips regardless of title. It's a mentality. You just need to hire people who are both smart and able to do the job, and can also see that all people are equals.
  - morgante 11y ago
    Good managers don't think they're more important than other people. In fact, the best managers realize that the happiness and success of the people they manage trumps their own desires.
acveilleux 11y ago
The way in which this site keeps bringing up a layer to get me to sign up for something everytime I go away from reading what is an interesting article is infuriating.
bsder 11y ago
Sigh. Yet more unsubstantiated psychobabble pablum. Managing people is hard. Mmmmmkay? My ability to manage is a function of how creatively and effectively I can be in aligning the company's goals with the worker's goals. It won't be 100% (that's why it's called a "job" and we pay people), but most managers barely even try. Funny how "troublemakers" seem to get in line when you actually manage to understand what motivates them. If a manager can't do that, either A) the manager needs to be replaced or B) the employee needs to be replaced. The problem is that we don't fire/demote managers nearly often enough, and we fire employees far too often.
- buerkle 11y ago
  Did you read the article? A good chunk of it was about understanding the trouble makers to see what motivates them and aligning both the goals of the employee and the company.
pklausler 11y ago
I'm glad that humans fall so neatly into a few distinct categories.
andy_ppp 11y ago
TLDR; Oh hello there! I've come up with a faultless way to manage inventive people out of organisations by pitching them as being troublemakers.
- sqldba 11y ago
  Write a book, turn it into a TV show, take my money!!! Wait a minute you didn't make all this up just to make money did you?
WhatIsThisIm12 11y ago
I would hate to work for this lady. The fact she labels these archetypes, which are questionable in the first place, as "troublemakers" really makes it clear what she thinks. She's better than her engineers, they're lucky to work for her, and if they're not careful, she'll fire them. That does not sound like a fun work environment. Not that I'm trying to be a troublemaker... (Please don't put me in timeout!)
- ball_of_lint 11y ago
  I didn't get the feeling that she thought she was better than her engineers. Regardless of that, each of these archetypes presents real difficulties to a team that has to deal with them. A hermit can cause massive troubles for a company if they are doing critical work. In the case that someone is prolematic to the team, it's better to solve the problem than to lose the person, and that's what she tried to do.
  - studentrob 11y ago
    > I remember several instances when it took a few deep breaths to keep me from kicking him out. But today he leads a team and triages the troublemakers he once was. Sometimes when you save a troublemaker, you’re saving a team they’re not yet on. She saved the troublemaker by taking a few deep breaths, not the team. She blames the troublemaker for his bad behavior, and takes credit for his good behavior. She does not acknowledge efforts made by other team members, and barely acknowledges the individual himself for the adjustments he made. She could've written "Sometimes when you are patient with a troublemaker, you're helping to save a team they're not yet on." We each make our own choices and face the consequences, good or bad. There is room for guides to help people understand consequences. Mentors and managers do not make choices for individuals. Ultimately, each choice is our own.
    - pm24601 10y ago
      I think she meant it as written. It sounds like she helped refocus the "troublemaker's" energy, language, mannerisms in a way that helped him be a positive contributor rather than someone who was resented by the rest of the team
Kenji 11y ago
TL;DR: Blue-haired girl knows all about the flaws of other people and tells them what to do. One glance on the photo was enough to know she is a feminist [0]. [0] https://twitter.com/bethanye https://twitter.com/bethanye , left bar
- cname 11y ago
  You're denigrating her because of her hairstyle and perceived political leanings? How is that relevant to the content of the article? You don't think she could possibly have relevant experience in spite of these things? Your comment is utterly tactless.
  - Kenji 11y ago
    Political leanings of the author are of utmost importance when reading an article. It seeps into the writing, into the fact reporting, into everything. I don't care about tact, I care about what's true, and I saw she was a feminist by her face and her blue hair (I actually love blue hair but it is a fact that colourful hair is associated with feminism these days), and that tells me enough. I know this kind of people very well (3rd wave feminists) and I wish I didn't. Bottom line, I wouldn't be surprised if she herself is also the cause of trouble occasionally.
- whitneyrzoller 11y ago
  what's wrong with feminism? what's the point of this observation? why do you need a footnote?
- dang 11y ago
  Personal attacks, which this is, are not allowed on Hacker News. We ban accounts that do this, so please don't do it.
  - studentrob 11y ago
    Both Kenji's words and the generalizations and labels used in the article are not true representations of people. People don't fall into nice neat boxes. Every programmer and gamer does not hate women, and every feminist does not tell other people what to do. I find both of these generalizations useless and misleading, although the article is more interesting because it provides actual details and gives the reader a chance to take away what he/she chooses. Kenji's comment is simply inflammatory.
sqldba 11y ago
Wow fuck everything about this, it sounds like extreme micro management. The premise here is a) do exactly what you're told and b) in exactly the way we tell you or c) you are mentally ill. Now I'll agree that some of it is plain toxic. You can't deploy whatever you want to production. But that's one line from an entire article of benign behaviour. You're REALLY going to crush Mr/Mrs Nostalgia? WHY WOULD YOU BOTHER. If someone saying things were better two years ago is going to crush your organisation then FFS you have bigger problems on your hands. I'd also like to put forward that if you're a hermit you either may just take pride in your work (a carpenter doesn't go parading around a half built table) or are STILL working in a toxic company (not just came from one so its your fault). If they're doing the job then for fucks sake let people be rather than trying to invent a job description for yourself which involves "fixing" normal people. There's a reason people are quitting when faced with this "mentoring" and it's not because they're burnt out.
1_2__3 11y ago
"For the last 20 years, Blount has led technical teams at a range of companies." LinkedIn says she was an IC until 2002, and then from 2002 through 2006 she was a "software design/project management" which is also an IC role. So really she's been leading technical teams for at most 10 years, which is not someone I would suggest anyone turn to for sage and experienced advice.
- sqldba 11y ago
  Sorry what's the IC acronym?
pekk 11y ago
None of the examples of troublemakers are management or HR. it's not that those people never cause trouble. It's that the trouble they cause is something we are forced to accept.
wglb 11y ago
This is a good article and reminds me of myself as a young trouble maker in my first major job after graduating. I think I was really pretty hard to work with. Now, not so much. My personal arc reminds me of growing up where my parents, particularly my father, was quite strict. Once I had children of my own, I often heard myself using my father's strict voice quite often. Her career also reminds me of Gerald M. Weinberg who started out as a computer programmer turned consultant. He eventually realized that many of the problems he was brought in to solve weren't strictly technological, and ended up debugging teams, using her terminology, and that became his career.

155 points by ca98am79 11y ago

Nice article. From my experience the biggest troublemakers are often in management two layers or more above and have no discipline in making changes or throwing new ideas into the pipeline.

gravity13 11y ago
ha! Very same experience here, too. I was just working at a place where one of the designer-founders redesigned a page to look one way. Then three months later, he redesigned it again, to look back the old way. He actually put these into the pipeline, assigned it to different engineers, and there was no reasoning over choosing one way or the other. Both designs had the same functionality and the same glaring flaws. He just kept wavering and wouldn't even consider doing any user testing or A/B testing on it. Glad I don't work there anymore.
- Benjammer 11y ago
  +1 for designer-founders mocking up & assigning UI changes purely to "keep things fresh"
  - sqldba 11y ago
    I think that's what goes on with the Azure portal.
- morgante 11y ago
  > He just kept wavering and wouldn't even consider doing any user testing or A/B testing on it. That's why it's essential to pre-commit to a culture of testing everything. It's by far the best weapon you have against a founder with a terrible idea that they won't drop.
  - gravity13 10y ago
    Funny thing was this place did espouse "test everything" except it came in the form of our Product leads "test only the things I don't agree with." Which of course meant we were using all of our testing budget on dumb things.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

gravity13 11y ago

I got to disagree with the whole continuity over ingenuity trope. It's how I can continue to remain modern as an engineer, and if done correctly, leads to vast gains in cognitive complexity by delegating concerns to newfangled tools that handle it better. Sure, it's a bit less stable, but this is how we keep the industry moving quickly, and I hope managers see it more in terms of trading technical debts than a stubborn "oh great, you want to introduce another new tool!?"

Declanomous 11y ago
It's important to realize this is written from the perspective of an employer. For an employer, it is much more important that someone can easily take up the reins if something happens to you. From a companies perspective, it is best if their employees are easily replaceable. Employees that can't easily be replaced are expensive. They have the ability to command a higher salary and can force companies to do things they wouldn't otherwise do. From the perspective of an employee, the company is forcing you to stagnate and become someone that is easily replaced. I don't blame anyone for being insulted by this. The company is advancing their own interests at the cost of their own. Nobody enjoys being forced to do something. So while an employee forced to work in a certain way can be expected to be bent out of shape, so can an employer whose hand has been forced by an employee. The adage 'shit flows downhill' is true, and the intractable employee will soon find themselves swimming in it. A company may decide to cut their losses early if you are actively making your position harder to fill. From their perspective, the longer they wait, the more deeply entrenched you become. Companies value reliability. They want someone they can count on. The same goes for people. If your manager doesn't feel they can trust you, if they are consistently afraid that you will embarrass them, then you are a liability to them. If you aren't outright fired, you will be kept on a very short leash. There are a lot of benefits to toeing the company line, insulting as it may seem. Should you find yourself in the good graces of your manager (and by extension, the good graces of the company), you will enjoy a remarkable amount of autonomy. By being dependable (if not predictable), you gain job security and autonomy. You will find your suggestions are taken more seriously, as nobody is left to wonder what trick you have up your sleeve. I totally understand where you are coming from. I am always looking for better tools for the job at hand. Companies move slow, and technology moves fast, and it's easy to be left behind if you move at the speed of the company. Ingratiating yourself to your company takes time too. It could be years before you get to use a new technology, at which point an even better tool shows up. The company has the upper hand in this situation. Changes probably won't come quickly. If you find yourself in a position where you aren't happy with the way you are allowed to do your job, oftentimes the easiest way to solve the problem is to find a new job.

oneloop 11y ago

Great PR.

wccrawford 11y ago

She notes that she has a tendency to require that the solution work her way when coding. I wonder if she realizes she's doing the same when working with people's problems? Almost all of those solutions end with, "do it my way or get out." Not a collaborative coder? No room for you here. Not a people person? No room for you here. Want to use the latest technologies? No room for you here. For someone who wrote an entire blogpost about the benefits of troublemakers and how to integrate them, she doesn't seem very willing to actually work with them, just to make them work for her.

jnbiche 11y ago
> Not a collaborative coder? No room for you here. Not a people person? No room for you here. Want to use the latest technologies? No room for you here. That's corporate life in America. No room for individualism. But I've heard it's even worse in Japan, so there's that...
- abc_lisper 11y ago
  Eh, Idk if it's that bad in US; if anything the other countries are worse. If you want to scratch that itch find a startup that uses latest and greatest stack.
- Angostura 11y ago
  Of course there's room for individualism. But if you're going to make the rest of your coworkers lives a misery, you'll find that you'll be expressing your individualism in your own one-person startup.
  - jnbiche 11y ago
    How is doing something like re-writing a system in your off hours making your co-workers miserable? I mean sure, if you then proceed to bug your boss every day to adopt the new system after he carefully reviewed it and rejected it, I'm with you. And she lists several "harmful" practices like this. In short, taking initiative? Nope, we don't like that here in corporate America. Doing what you're told and minimize risk. Don't actually try to make us money or anything.

6stringmerc 11y ago

Having worked in several divergent fields as a Proposal Writer (aka Team Leader with Zero Authority) - health care, finance, and insurance - nearly none of these archetypes are exclusive to engineering or the tech sector. I think they are reasonable break-downs of classification as presented (Hermit, Nostalgia, Trend Chaser, and Smarty) which can be useful to consider in pretty much any professional, team environment. This article could be helpful to get a more relaxed, casual perspective of employees that can be frustrating. I've often joked that working in a fast paced, multi-deadline Proposal gig, it's like herding cats. Each team might have one or more of these troublemakers - or, worse yet, be the 'name / lead person' running the opportunity - and so learning techniques to work through the challenges became second nature. Always was a fan of Kevin Mitnick, and his guides on social engineering security can be resonably applied in manipulating team members for great good. YMMV.

cakeface 11y ago

>That guy who decides to rewrite an entire system in his off-hours in a new language without telling anyone else? I have worked with this person on more than one occasion and I would love to work with them again. Entire new products and verticals are often the result of such projects. Companies have such a hard time dealing with risk. They think that the only appropriate thing is to always minimize risk. "Look, I have minimized risk at every opportunity. I am doing a great job!" That's not true all the time though. When exploring new business models or in some other situations high risk activity should be preferred.

tonecluster 11y ago
She talks about risk/reward and acknowledging the benefit new tech can bring to an organization. Minimizing risk doesn't mean no risk. High risk regardless of reward should not be preferred; risk/reward discussions and reasonable decisions should be preferred.
allengeorge 11y ago
Sometimes that behavior arises because the person is bored, or they feel their skills aren't being utilized, or they feel like their concerns about an existing system are being minimized.
- djsumdog 11y ago
  Yea, those people need to learn to work on their own stuff. I do so much of my own/oss work at work and am surprised at how everyone has always said I'm doing great and my stuff is always out faster and more tested than everyone else. ..expectations are low, and there's value in keeping it that way! :) (all my favoruite stuff has been stuff I've worked on for myself, that doesn't earn any money. I find almost all of it more worthwhile than any of the technical entrenched garbage I've written in the corporate world for the past decade of my life)
  - slig 11y ago
    I hope you realize that working on your own stuff at work can get you in trouble.

kazinator 11y ago

> THE HERMIT > [...] > NOSTALGIA JUNKIE > [...] > TREND CHASER > [...] If you enjoy this sort of "laundry list of named stereotypes" format, you might like "Academic Programmers: A Spotter's Guide": http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~elf/hack/academic.html http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~elf/hack/academic.html [1997] It's got more of them and they are funnier.

erikb 11y ago

About the hermit: Why isn't the first assumption to look into the company's own culture? I mean you can work on trust as much as you want. If there is no reason to have trust in the team the tactic will fail.

dimino 11y ago

This is a gold mine, I'm so glad to have found this article, thank you for sharing! I definitely evolved from "The Hermit" into what I am currently, some form of "Smartest in the Room"(I don't think I'm smarter, I just tend to think the way I came up with is best). Being a developer is a process! I'm incredibly interested when we stop pretending that everyone's a "rockstar" or whatever, and start talking about the problems that come up, and how to work through them. I'm only just now coming to the realization within the last few weeks that I need to be more open to alternative and intermediate solutions that aren't perfect, but solve the problem for the time being. Again, thanks for sharing!

Deimorz 11y ago

Pretty strange to describe Bethanye as a "Reddit veteran", especially leading the title with that. She worked at Reddit for less than a month.

mbrutsch 11y ago
You should know the routine by now. ;)
amackera 11y ago
I wonder what happened there?
- MarkArts 11y ago
  From some minor googling it seems she didn't want to mixed up in Reddit's community problems at the time. http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/07/14/reddits-troubles-mount-as-chief-engineer-bethanye-blount-quits/ http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/07/14/reddits-troubles-mo...
krisdol 11y ago
Less than a month? That makes it a pretty misleading title.

studentrob 11y ago

> I remember several instances when it took a few deep breaths to keep me from kicking him out. But today he leads a team and triages the troublemakers he once was. Sometimes when you save a troublemaker, you’re saving a team they’re not yet on. What a saint. Seriously, it always felt funny to me when a team member was let go at the behest of one or a few individuals. Anyway, the way she says this leads me to believe she thinks she is more important than other people.

eumoria 11y ago
> Anyway, the way she says this leads me to believe she thinks she is more important than other people. She's a manager of course she thinks that.
- studentrob 11y ago
  Well that's silly. All managers do not feel that way, and the salary sure isn't higher in many cases unless you're nearing the top of the organization. Being a manager is simply a different job function.
  - gravity13 10y ago
    This is where I feel like the title "project manager" ought to be reconsidered, perhaps to "project secretary." That way, it's a bit more clear there's less of a hierarchy and more of a duty.
    - studentrob 10y ago
      People go on power trips regardless of title. It's a mentality. You just need to hire people who are both smart and able to do the job, and can also see that all people are equals.
- morgante 11y ago
  Good managers don't think they're more important than other people. In fact, the best managers realize that the happiness and success of the people they manage trumps their own desires.

acveilleux 11y ago

The way in which this site keeps bringing up a layer to get me to sign up for something everytime I go away from reading what is an interesting article is infuriating.

bsder 11y ago

Sigh. Yet more unsubstantiated psychobabble pablum. Managing people is hard. Mmmmmkay? My ability to manage is a function of how creatively and effectively I can be in aligning the company's goals with the worker's goals. It won't be 100% (that's why it's called a "job" and we pay people), but most managers barely even try. Funny how "troublemakers" seem to get in line when you actually manage to understand what motivates them. If a manager can't do that, either A) the manager needs to be replaced or B) the employee needs to be replaced. The problem is that we don't fire/demote managers nearly often enough, and we fire employees far too often.

buerkle 11y ago
Did you read the article? A good chunk of it was about understanding the trouble makers to see what motivates them and aligning both the goals of the employee and the company.

pklausler 11y ago

I'm glad that humans fall so neatly into a few distinct categories.

andy_ppp 11y ago

TLDR; Oh hello there! I've come up with a faultless way to manage inventive people out of organisations by pitching them as being troublemakers.

sqldba 11y ago
Write a book, turn it into a TV show, take my money!!! Wait a minute you didn't make all this up just to make money did you?

WhatIsThisIm12 11y ago

I would hate to work for this lady. The fact she labels these archetypes, which are questionable in the first place, as "troublemakers" really makes it clear what she thinks. She's better than her engineers, they're lucky to work for her, and if they're not careful, she'll fire them. That does not sound like a fun work environment. Not that I'm trying to be a troublemaker... (Please don't put me in timeout!)

ball_of_lint 11y ago
I didn't get the feeling that she thought she was better than her engineers. Regardless of that, each of these archetypes presents real difficulties to a team that has to deal with them. A hermit can cause massive troubles for a company if they are doing critical work. In the case that someone is prolematic to the team, it's better to solve the problem than to lose the person, and that's what she tried to do.
- studentrob 11y ago
  > I remember several instances when it took a few deep breaths to keep me from kicking him out. But today he leads a team and triages the troublemakers he once was. Sometimes when you save a troublemaker, you’re saving a team they’re not yet on. She saved the troublemaker by taking a few deep breaths, not the team. She blames the troublemaker for his bad behavior, and takes credit for his good behavior. She does not acknowledge efforts made by other team members, and barely acknowledges the individual himself for the adjustments he made. She could've written "Sometimes when you are patient with a troublemaker, you're helping to save a team they're not yet on." We each make our own choices and face the consequences, good or bad. There is room for guides to help people understand consequences. Mentors and managers do not make choices for individuals. Ultimately, each choice is our own.
  - pm24601 10y ago
    I think she meant it as written. It sounds like she helped refocus the "troublemaker's" energy, language, mannerisms in a way that helped him be a positive contributor rather than someone who was resented by the rest of the team

Kenji 11y ago

TL;DR: Blue-haired girl knows all about the flaws of other people and tells them what to do. One glance on the photo was enough to know she is a feminist [0]. [0] https://twitter.com/bethanye https://twitter.com/bethanye , left bar

cname 11y ago
You're denigrating her because of her hairstyle and perceived political leanings? How is that relevant to the content of the article? You don't think she could possibly have relevant experience in spite of these things? Your comment is utterly tactless.
- Kenji 11y ago
  Political leanings of the author are of utmost importance when reading an article. It seeps into the writing, into the fact reporting, into everything. I don't care about tact, I care about what's true, and I saw she was a feminist by her face and her blue hair (I actually love blue hair but it is a fact that colourful hair is associated with feminism these days), and that tells me enough. I know this kind of people very well (3rd wave feminists) and I wish I didn't. Bottom line, I wouldn't be surprised if she herself is also the cause of trouble occasionally.
whitneyrzoller 11y ago
what's wrong with feminism? what's the point of this observation? why do you need a footnote?
dang 11y ago
Personal attacks, which this is, are not allowed on Hacker News. We ban accounts that do this, so please don't do it.
- studentrob 11y ago
  Both Kenji's words and the generalizations and labels used in the article are not true representations of people. People don't fall into nice neat boxes. Every programmer and gamer does not hate women, and every feminist does not tell other people what to do. I find both of these generalizations useless and misleading, although the article is more interesting because it provides actual details and gives the reader a chance to take away what he/she chooses. Kenji's comment is simply inflammatory.

sqldba 11y ago

Wow fuck everything about this, it sounds like extreme micro management. The premise here is a) do exactly what you're told and b) in exactly the way we tell you or c) you are mentally ill. Now I'll agree that some of it is plain toxic. You can't deploy whatever you want to production. But that's one line from an entire article of benign behaviour. You're REALLY going to crush Mr/Mrs Nostalgia? WHY WOULD YOU BOTHER. If someone saying things were better two years ago is going to crush your organisation then FFS you have bigger problems on your hands. I'd also like to put forward that if you're a hermit you either may just take pride in your work (a carpenter doesn't go parading around a half built table) or are STILL working in a toxic company (not just came from one so its your fault). If they're doing the job then for fucks sake let people be rather than trying to invent a job description for yourself which involves "fixing" normal people. There's a reason people are quitting when faced with this "mentoring" and it's not because they're burnt out.

1_2__3 11y ago

"For the last 20 years, Blount has led technical teams at a range of companies." LinkedIn says she was an IC until 2002, and then from 2002 through 2006 she was a "software design/project management" which is also an IC role. So really she's been leading technical teams for at most 10 years, which is not someone I would suggest anyone turn to for sage and experienced advice.

sqldba 11y ago
Sorry what's the IC acronym?

pekk 11y ago

None of the examples of troublemakers are management or HR. it's not that those people never cause trouble. It's that the trouble they cause is something we are forced to accept.

wglb 11y ago

This is a good article and reminds me of myself as a young trouble maker in my first major job after graduating. I think I was really pretty hard to work with. Now, not so much. My personal arc reminds me of growing up where my parents, particularly my father, was quite strict. Once I had children of my own, I often heard myself using my father's strict voice quite often. Her career also reminds me of Gerald M. Weinberg who started out as a computer programmer turned consultant. He eventually realized that many of the problems he was brought in to solve weren't strictly technological, and ended up debugging teams, using her terminology, and that became his career.