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C++ is vastly different animal than C in this case. Most of the problems with C you are implying here are non issues in modern C++.

by Scea91 10y ago

Someone1234 10y ago
The key being modern C++. A lot of C++ projects aren't written in modern C++ and out of the few that are, even then, programmers will mix in older less secure C++ because they lack experience with modern C++. So habits can actually hurt security. Ultimately when you have a language which mixes secure and insecure practises and lets the programmer decide, as an outside observer you have to assume the worst unless shown otherwise. C++ can be written very well, but C++ can also be written no better than C, it is project by project for which is which. Other languages don't have this issue. If you see a Rust, Go, Java, C#, etc block of code you can make certain assumptions about what classes of security issues it won't have.
oconnore 10y ago
You're saying exactly the same thing. "This environment can shoot me in the foot, but not if I do it right." MISRA C with copious static analysis and a talented QA team is safe, too!
steveklabnik 10y ago
Web browsers use modern C++ and still have security issues. It's a step forward, but not a panacea.
- abiox 10y ago
  to what extent? i imagine the codebases are quite...mature. and gigantic.
  - pcwalton 10y ago
    Everywhere. We have been using smart pointers for a long time. Modern C++ doesn't add any memory safety protection beyond that which was already available with custom smart pointers in earlier versions of C++. In fact, I think modern C++ is less safe than earlier versions, due to new classes of potential bugs like use-after-move and the ease with which closed-over variable references in lambdas can become dangling.
pcwalton 10y ago
> Most of the problems with C you are implying here are non issues in modern C++. No, they aren't. Use after free is just as exploitable and is a severe concern in C++. In fact, it's worse in C++ than in C, due to the ubiquity of vtables.

C++ is vastly different animal than C in this case. Most of the problems with C you are implying here are non issues in modern C++.

by Scea91 10y ago

C++ is vastly different animal than C in this case. Most of the problems with C you are implying here are non issues in modern C++.

Someone1234 10y ago

The key being modern C++. A lot of C++ projects aren't written in modern C++ and out of the few that are, even then, programmers will mix in older less secure C++ because they lack experience with modern C++. So habits can actually hurt security. Ultimately when you have a language which mixes secure and insecure practises and lets the programmer decide, as an outside observer you have to assume the worst unless shown otherwise. C++ can be written very well, but C++ can also be written no better than C, it is project by project for which is which. Other languages don't have this issue. If you see a Rust, Go, Java, C#, etc block of code you can make certain assumptions about what classes of security issues it won't have.

oconnore 10y ago

You're saying exactly the same thing. "This environment can shoot me in the foot, but not if I do it right." MISRA C with copious static analysis and a talented QA team is safe, too!

steveklabnik 10y ago

Web browsers use modern C++ and still have security issues. It's a step forward, but not a panacea.

abiox 10y ago
to what extent? i imagine the codebases are quite...mature. and gigantic.
- pcwalton 10y ago
  Everywhere. We have been using smart pointers for a long time. Modern C++ doesn't add any memory safety protection beyond that which was already available with custom smart pointers in earlier versions of C++. In fact, I think modern C++ is less safe than earlier versions, due to new classes of potential bugs like use-after-move and the ease with which closed-over variable references in lambdas can become dangling.

pcwalton 10y ago

> Most of the problems with C you are implying here are non issues in modern C++. No, they aren't. Use after free is just as exploitable and is a severe concern in C++. In fact, it's worse in C++ than in C, due to the ubiquity of vtables.