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> That you believe this makes it absolutely impossible for me to think you're not in a privileged position. Believe what you want, but I sure as hell didn't gr

> That you believe this makes it absolutely impossible for me to think you're not in a privileged position. Believe what you want, but I sure as hell didn't grow up in a privileged position. > Great when you know where to go, and they work as they should. They are not perfect. And people are not perfect. Especially not when starving. Churches will give food, its part of many faiths. Stealing is wrong, and brings misery to others. People will help others, but taking is never right because of the chain of pain you unleash in the world. Whose privileged when you can decide to take from others?

vidarh 11y ago
> Believe what you want, but I sure as hell didn't grow up in a privileged position. I think the disconnect there is that we appear to have very different ideas of what is required to be privileged. Have you ever starved? (And going hungry is not starvation). > Churches will give food, its part of many faiths. Again, have you ever starved, and tried to think clearly enough to find someone willing to give you food? > People will help others, but taking is never right because of the chain of pain you unleash in the world. If the choices is theft of necessities or starvation, I would always consider theft morally acceptable, because the pain involved is magnitudes apart from the pain caused by petty theft.
- protomyth 11y ago
  > Have you ever starved? (And going hungry is not starvation). I've gone hungry and I know my Dad did. There was choices made by this person before they hit starve. They were hungry first. Why is visiting a church or other organization unacceptable to you?
  - vidarh 11y ago
    > I've gone hungry and I know my Dad did. Going hungry and starvation are two vastly different things, both physiologically and mentally. > There was choices made by this person before they hit starve. And these choices were insufficient to save him. So now what? Do you want him to starve to death because he was unable to fix things? Are property rights for a few euros worth that much to you compared to the well-being of a fellow human? > Why is visiting a church or other organization unacceptable to you? If you think that is what I said, you did not understand what I wrote.
    - protomyth 11y ago
      > And these choices were insufficient to save him > If you think that is what I said, you did not understand what I wrote. I cannot think otherwise because you seem to say that stealing is still the only means of survival. I offered what this person could do instead of stealing. Stealing is still not the only solution.
      - vidarh 11y ago
        > I cannot think otherwise because you seem to say that stealing is still the only means of survival. I offered what this person could do instead of stealing. Stealing is still not the only solution. My point, which you still do not seem to understand, is that someone who is starving is not in a frame of mind where you can expect them to be able to calmly and logically go through the available options, weigh them, find the most moral one, and execute on it. Hence why I asked if you have ever experienced starvation rather than just hunger. To me the above ranks with the (admittedly apocryphal) "let them eat cake". Technically, yes, he "could" have done many things.
        protomyth 11y ago
        > To me the above ranks with the (admittedly apocryphal) "let them eat cake". Technically, yes, he "could" have done many things No, hell no. Its not let them eat cake. Its there were other ways to save yourself and not cause pain to others.
        vidarh 11y ago
        So "let them eat cake." In other words: You still don't understand what I wrote above, and you're still talking from privilege.

vidarh 11y ago

> Believe what you want, but I sure as hell didn't grow up in a privileged position. I think the disconnect there is that we appear to have very different ideas of what is required to be privileged. Have you ever starved? (And going hungry is not starvation). > Churches will give food, its part of many faiths. Again, have you ever starved, and tried to think clearly enough to find someone willing to give you food? > People will help others, but taking is never right because of the chain of pain you unleash in the world. If the choices is theft of necessities or starvation, I would always consider theft morally acceptable, because the pain involved is magnitudes apart from the pain caused by petty theft.

protomyth 11y ago
> Have you ever starved? (And going hungry is not starvation). I've gone hungry and I know my Dad did. There was choices made by this person before they hit starve. They were hungry first. Why is visiting a church or other organization unacceptable to you?
- vidarh 11y ago
  > I've gone hungry and I know my Dad did. Going hungry and starvation are two vastly different things, both physiologically and mentally. > There was choices made by this person before they hit starve. And these choices were insufficient to save him. So now what? Do you want him to starve to death because he was unable to fix things? Are property rights for a few euros worth that much to you compared to the well-being of a fellow human? > Why is visiting a church or other organization unacceptable to you? If you think that is what I said, you did not understand what I wrote.
  - protomyth 11y ago
    > And these choices were insufficient to save him > If you think that is what I said, you did not understand what I wrote. I cannot think otherwise because you seem to say that stealing is still the only means of survival. I offered what this person could do instead of stealing. Stealing is still not the only solution.
    - vidarh 11y ago
      > I cannot think otherwise because you seem to say that stealing is still the only means of survival. I offered what this person could do instead of stealing. Stealing is still not the only solution. My point, which you still do not seem to understand, is that someone who is starving is not in a frame of mind where you can expect them to be able to calmly and logically go through the available options, weigh them, find the most moral one, and execute on it. Hence why I asked if you have ever experienced starvation rather than just hunger. To me the above ranks with the (admittedly apocryphal) "let them eat cake". Technically, yes, he "could" have done many things.
      - protomyth 11y ago
        > To me the above ranks with the (admittedly apocryphal) "let them eat cake". Technically, yes, he "could" have done many things No, hell no. Its not let them eat cake. Its there were other ways to save yourself and not cause pain to others.
        vidarh 11y ago
        So "let them eat cake." In other words: You still don't understand what I wrote above, and you're still talking from privilege.