4 ms·

He brought up a case where someone made it to an on-site interview, and it was noted that the guy repeatedly belittled the office assistant and sort of thumbed

He brought up a case where someone made it to an on-site interview, and it was noted that the guy repeatedly belittled the office assistant and sort of thumbed his nose at her. You can take my word on this or not, but I'm not an asshole. I'm a decent guy whom he chose not to hire, probably for good reasons, but it would have been better to tell me what those reasons were, seeing as I was in a very tough spot (remember that recession thing?). Now I'll never work with Fog Creek in any capacity, never buy their products, and never recommend anyone to work there (although I wouldn't advise against it; I'm not vindictive). Even if you were qualified to get a job there normally, someone could've applied that happened to wipe the floor with everyone. Fair. I wouldn't have objected at all if he told me something to the effect of "someone else applied with more experience". That's the reality of a competitive market and I would have respected him for telling me that. Besides, if I don't get in because they're hiring these great people, then that's an incentive for me to re-apply in a few years when I am a stronger applicant and much more likely to succeed. Regardless, the odds of you reapplying aren't that high (though he notices it), so it's simply not worth the effort - if he noticed you stood out, he would've made the effort to continue. If he turned me down because he didn't see me as a fit for the job, or I didn't have the skills he was looking for, then that's perfectly reasonable and he could have said as much. On the other hand, if the reason he didn't take 5 minutes out of his day (or that of someone else who could do so) to explain his rationale was because he didn't think I am talented enough for doing so to be worth it, then his judgment of talent is worth less than dogshit.

owinebarger 17y ago
Your last paragraph is way off reality. People will use your talent to judge whether you're worth considering for a job. People will use your perceived character to decide whether you are worth doing a favor such as helping you in your career. If your attitude of "I'm talented enough to deserve your time and advice" showed, that alone would be sufficient reason not to help you. A little humility while asking for help goes a long way with most people. That means if someone chooses not to help you out you recognize that their world isn't centered around you and your problems, and don't hold it against them. Instead, be grateful if they do give you the gift of their time and advice.
philwelch 17y ago
Vindictive probably isn't the right word for it, but you seem to feel excessively upset about this, given how many comments you've written on the subject. It seems like you convinced yourself you were naturally entitled to work there, and are having a hard time dealing with the cognitive dissonance of not even getting an in-office interview. Even wanting to be told why you weren't hired seems to imply a sense of entitlement on your part. To be fair, Joel spends a lot of words in his blog trying to make programmers feel entitled to special treatment (because then we'll apply to work at his awesome company which pampers us). So I can understand the emotions involved here, I just think you need to be a little more critical about how you're responding to this. Getting turned down by a company with 32 employees and yet hundreds of applicants for each open position is to be expected, frankly. At those scales, I don't think they can afford the time it takes to tell everyone why they were rejected.

owinebarger 17y ago

Your last paragraph is way off reality. People will use your talent to judge whether you're worth considering for a job. People will use your perceived character to decide whether you are worth doing a favor such as helping you in your career. If your attitude of "I'm talented enough to deserve your time and advice" showed, that alone would be sufficient reason not to help you. A little humility while asking for help goes a long way with most people. That means if someone chooses not to help you out you recognize that their world isn't centered around you and your problems, and don't hold it against them. Instead, be grateful if they do give you the gift of their time and advice.

philwelch 17y ago

Vindictive probably isn't the right word for it, but you seem to feel excessively upset about this, given how many comments you've written on the subject. It seems like you convinced yourself you were naturally entitled to work there, and are having a hard time dealing with the cognitive dissonance of not even getting an in-office interview. Even wanting to be told why you weren't hired seems to imply a sense of entitlement on your part. To be fair, Joel spends a lot of words in his blog trying to make programmers feel entitled to special treatment (because then we'll apply to work at his awesome company which pampers us). So I can understand the emotions involved here, I just think you need to be a little more critical about how you're responding to this. Getting turned down by a company with 32 employees and yet hundreds of applicants for each open position is to be expected, frankly. At those scales, I don't think they can afford the time it takes to tell everyone why they were rejected.