6 ms·

Or instead, give it universally to children, but require a certain percentage be saved in some sort of fund that they are given full control of when they turn 1

by goda90 11y ago

Or instead, give it universally to children, but require a certain percentage be saved in some sort of fund that they are given full control of when they turn 18. That way the parents don't have to shoulder all of the expense of a child, but the child isn't screwed over by irresponsible parents either.

brightball 11y ago
When they turn 18 they are already going to have access to the BI. I'm not sure of the benefit of a fund rather than directing it to school funding. Prior to school it would allow parents to pay for daycare, diapers, food and subsidize paternity/maternity leave.
- nojvek 11y ago
  I know of folks who end up many kids to maximize on the welfare per kid. Can you really trust all parents? I've seen some abuse of welfare in my days in Australia.
Unklejoe 11y ago
Cool idea. I'd advocate for an age of 25 though. An 18 year old these days is still a child. Give them a couple years into the drinking age to get their bad decisions out of the way.
- cujo 11y ago
  Sounds like you should advocated for a drinking age of 25 instead. Or move all those other things you get to do at 18 to 25 also.
  - PietdeVries 11y ago
    Let me know when you have this thing in place: I will start a "Spring Break Holiday Park" somewhere in the south where beer is $20 and a Rum&Coke goes for $40. Only people from 25 are allowed in.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - Unklejoe 11y ago
    I think we should actually lower the drinking age. It's currently 21 here. In fact, being 18 really gains you nothing here other than the ability to join the military and get into trouble with the law. My main point is that a few years should go by after a child enters into the adult world before they have access to a fund left for them. There's usually a short "reckless" period immediately after graduating high school and college. However, this usually calms down after the initial shock of having sudden freedom wears off. I have two friends who inhereted $20,000+ sums of money from relatives when they were in their late teens, and both of them pissed it away in under a year. Looking back, both of them seem to regret it. (Me and my friends are all around 25 years old).
    - slavik81 11y ago
      > I have two friends who inhereted $20,000+ sums of money from relatives when they were in their late teens, and both of them pissed it away in under a year. Looking back, both of them seem to regret it. Would they have learned that lesson without making that mistake? Are you even sure they really wouldn't do the same again? To quote Time, "About 70 percent of people who suddenly receive a windfall of cash will lose it within a few years, according to the National Endowment for Financial Education." Just to make the anecdotes match the statistics, I inherented roughly 30k. It remained in my education fund until I finished undergrad. At 22, I opened an investment account. It's been paying dividends for the better part of a decade now.
      - Unklejoe 11y ago
        [Would they have learned that lesson without making that mistake? Are you even sure they really wouldn't do the same again?] It's hard to say. However, I think one really learns the value of money after having been in the work force for a while. I think that experience may have had a positive impact on their decision making had this happened later on in their life. [To quote Time, "About 70 percent of people who suddenly receive a windfall of cash will lose it within a few years, according to the National Endowment for Financial Education."] I believe it. But I also believe that the likelyhood of making good financial choices increases with some time spent in the work force. In this case, they had been living a nice lifestyle under their parents when they received the money. [Just to make the anecdotes match the statistics, I inherented roughly 30k. It remained in my education fund until I finished undergrad. At 22, I opened an investment account. It's been invested in the TSX60 for the past 6 years now.] You are also on hackernews, a website which consists of generally well-educated people. I'm not trying to sound snotty here, but there's a good chance that you have better judgement than most people.
- random_upvoter 11y ago
  That is mainly because "these days" 18 year olds are no longer empowered to make any relevant decisions. You propose to keep treating them like children for seven more years. The day they become 25 you'll say "My gosh, they're 25 now but they're STILL like children!". It is my opinion that this huge collective distrust towards youth is one of the biggest hidden problems of today's society. If it was up to me, kids would get a basic income from the age of 14.
  - Retric 11y ago
    There are plenty of biological changes from ~18-25 which impact reasoning. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141164708 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1411647... In the end all society's have a baby-elder process with many stages. We let 15 year old's risk their and others lives driving multi thousand pound vehicles at 70+MPH. We keep prescription medication behind many additional hoops even for well educated 60 year old's. IMO, the real difference is how much education people need. A 15 year old can dig a ditch just fine, but cancer research takes quite a bit more. In the end society simply values 15 year old's time less.
  - Unklejoe 11y ago
    I think it's mainly because these days, it's much harder for an 18 year old to make an indipendent living than it was back in the day. Today, most people don't even begin their careers until after college, which is usually around 23 at the earliest. When my Dad was growing up, it was not unusual for 16 year olds to begin working full time to support themselves. By 25, most people were already well on their way to marriage. This is not the case today. Today, people who are 18 are usually still dependent on their parents. It's not the children's fault, either. It's just a fact of the times. More schooling is required than before, and continuous schooling shelters people from having to make many real world decisions. It's easy to live a "don't care" lifestyle during college, only to be hit with reality hard once you graduate. I've personally experienced this. There is a major difference in meltalities of someone who's been in school their entire life and someone who's been in the "real world" for a few years. I'm not sure of your age, nor am I suggesting that it would have any negative impact on your perception here, but we seem to have different perceptions of the youth of today. I am 25 years old and I can only speak on my experiences. And my experience shows that there's not much of a difference in maturity between an 18 year old senior in High School and a 22 year old Junior in college. However, there's a huge difference between a 22 year old Junior in college and a 24 year old who's been working for a year.
- morgante 11y ago
  That's offensive. I am 23 and have lived away from home since I was 17. I've been financially independent since I turned 18. Don't stereotype.
  - Unklejoe 11y ago
    That's quite the accomplishment, and is by far not the norm. I am 25 and have only been financially independent since 23, and even I am the anomaly amongst my peers. I don't see what's wrong with my stereotype in this case. Most people under 25 are not financially independent, and it's mainly due to the society we live in, not the children themselves. When my Dad was growing up, people had full time jobs at 16 years old and were married with kids by 25, where as today, the average person doesn't even graduate college before 23. I'm not blaming the children for that.
    - morgante 11y ago
      Stop calling us "children." It's offense and rude. How very convenient that the cutoff of adulthood is your own age—if you're going to insult vast numbers of functional adults, at least insult yourself in the process. Silly child. First of all, you are in fact wrong. The majority of young adults do in fact live independently. [0] Second of all, if you think that adulthood isn't reached until 25, why would you be advocating for reinforcing this supposed infantilization? [0] http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/07/29/more-snake http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/07/29/more-snake people-living-with-family-despite-improved-job-market/
      - Unklejoe 11y ago
        The link you posted doesn't seem to work. [How very convenient that the cutoff of adulthood is your own age] I chose the number 25 because it is usually a few years after most people have graduated college and have entered the work force. The number 25 is used in many places as a "special" age. Insurance companies, rental car companies, hotel bookings, etc... [you're going to insult vast numbers of functional adults, at least insult yourself in the process. Silly child.] I don't know about your peers, but from my graduating class of ~1000, I would guess there were less than 100 who were completely independent by 23. [First of all, you are in fact wrong. The majority of young adults do in fact live independently.] I'll do some research on that.
- slavik81 11y ago
  Many adults make bad decisions their whole lives.
  - IndianAstronaut 11y ago
    Probably one of the biggest mistakes is not learning more skills and different skills. In this era of online learning, there is really no excuse for not spending a couple hours bere and there to learn something new or different.
- maaku 11y ago
  Mildly related, but for a while I've felt we should change the age of majority / self responsibility to age 25. It would improve a lot of things about society...
  - knz 11y ago
    Personally I think the opposite is true to some degree. Age does not guarantee that you are a rational and well informed citizen. I've also read numerous articles about how young people are more tolerant (gay marriage is a good example), moving back into dense urban areas (causing less sprawl and a renewed interest in better public transport and urban planning), and willing to at least admit that major challenges like anthropogenic climate change are real. Society can learn from people of all ages, but often the enthusiasm and free time of youth is what is needed to drive real societal change.
    - maaku 11y ago
      I'm not sure what that has to do with age of responsibility? The statistical facts are there to show that people under the age of 25 have generally impaired judgement compared with those over. (Among other things that's why you can't rent cars until 25.)
- serge2k 11y ago
  Okay, lets also ban anyone under 25 from joining the army.

by goda90 11y ago

brightball 11y ago

When they turn 18 they are already going to have access to the BI. I'm not sure of the benefit of a fund rather than directing it to school funding. Prior to school it would allow parents to pay for daycare, diapers, food and subsidize paternity/maternity leave.

nojvek 11y ago
I know of folks who end up many kids to maximize on the welfare per kid. Can you really trust all parents? I've seen some abuse of welfare in my days in Australia.

Unklejoe 11y ago

Cool idea. I'd advocate for an age of 25 though. An 18 year old these days is still a child. Give them a couple years into the drinking age to get their bad decisions out of the way.

cujo 11y ago
Sounds like you should advocated for a drinking age of 25 instead. Or move all those other things you get to do at 18 to 25 also.
- PietdeVries 11y ago
  Let me know when you have this thing in place: I will start a "Spring Break Holiday Park" somewhere in the south where beer is $20 and a Rum&Coke goes for $40. Only people from 25 are allowed in.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- Unklejoe 11y ago
  I think we should actually lower the drinking age. It's currently 21 here. In fact, being 18 really gains you nothing here other than the ability to join the military and get into trouble with the law. My main point is that a few years should go by after a child enters into the adult world before they have access to a fund left for them. There's usually a short "reckless" period immediately after graduating high school and college. However, this usually calms down after the initial shock of having sudden freedom wears off. I have two friends who inhereted $20,000+ sums of money from relatives when they were in their late teens, and both of them pissed it away in under a year. Looking back, both of them seem to regret it. (Me and my friends are all around 25 years old).
  - slavik81 11y ago
    > I have two friends who inhereted $20,000+ sums of money from relatives when they were in their late teens, and both of them pissed it away in under a year. Looking back, both of them seem to regret it. Would they have learned that lesson without making that mistake? Are you even sure they really wouldn't do the same again? To quote Time, "About 70 percent of people who suddenly receive a windfall of cash will lose it within a few years, according to the National Endowment for Financial Education." Just to make the anecdotes match the statistics, I inherented roughly 30k. It remained in my education fund until I finished undergrad. At 22, I opened an investment account. It's been paying dividends for the better part of a decade now.
    - Unklejoe 11y ago
      [Would they have learned that lesson without making that mistake? Are you even sure they really wouldn't do the same again?] It's hard to say. However, I think one really learns the value of money after having been in the work force for a while. I think that experience may have had a positive impact on their decision making had this happened later on in their life. [To quote Time, "About 70 percent of people who suddenly receive a windfall of cash will lose it within a few years, according to the National Endowment for Financial Education."] I believe it. But I also believe that the likelyhood of making good financial choices increases with some time spent in the work force. In this case, they had been living a nice lifestyle under their parents when they received the money. [Just to make the anecdotes match the statistics, I inherented roughly 30k. It remained in my education fund until I finished undergrad. At 22, I opened an investment account. It's been invested in the TSX60 for the past 6 years now.] You are also on hackernews, a website which consists of generally well-educated people. I'm not trying to sound snotty here, but there's a good chance that you have better judgement than most people.
random_upvoter 11y ago
That is mainly because "these days" 18 year olds are no longer empowered to make any relevant decisions. You propose to keep treating them like children for seven more years. The day they become 25 you'll say "My gosh, they're 25 now but they're STILL like children!". It is my opinion that this huge collective distrust towards youth is one of the biggest hidden problems of today's society. If it was up to me, kids would get a basic income from the age of 14.
- Retric 11y ago
  There are plenty of biological changes from ~18-25 which impact reasoning. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141164708 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1411647... In the end all society's have a baby-elder process with many stages. We let 15 year old's risk their and others lives driving multi thousand pound vehicles at 70+MPH. We keep prescription medication behind many additional hoops even for well educated 60 year old's. IMO, the real difference is how much education people need. A 15 year old can dig a ditch just fine, but cancer research takes quite a bit more. In the end society simply values 15 year old's time less.
- Unklejoe 11y ago
  I think it's mainly because these days, it's much harder for an 18 year old to make an indipendent living than it was back in the day. Today, most people don't even begin their careers until after college, which is usually around 23 at the earliest. When my Dad was growing up, it was not unusual for 16 year olds to begin working full time to support themselves. By 25, most people were already well on their way to marriage. This is not the case today. Today, people who are 18 are usually still dependent on their parents. It's not the children's fault, either. It's just a fact of the times. More schooling is required than before, and continuous schooling shelters people from having to make many real world decisions. It's easy to live a "don't care" lifestyle during college, only to be hit with reality hard once you graduate. I've personally experienced this. There is a major difference in meltalities of someone who's been in school their entire life and someone who's been in the "real world" for a few years. I'm not sure of your age, nor am I suggesting that it would have any negative impact on your perception here, but we seem to have different perceptions of the youth of today. I am 25 years old and I can only speak on my experiences. And my experience shows that there's not much of a difference in maturity between an 18 year old senior in High School and a 22 year old Junior in college. However, there's a huge difference between a 22 year old Junior in college and a 24 year old who's been working for a year.
morgante 11y ago
That's offensive. I am 23 and have lived away from home since I was 17. I've been financially independent since I turned 18. Don't stereotype.
- Unklejoe 11y ago
  That's quite the accomplishment, and is by far not the norm. I am 25 and have only been financially independent since 23, and even I am the anomaly amongst my peers. I don't see what's wrong with my stereotype in this case. Most people under 25 are not financially independent, and it's mainly due to the society we live in, not the children themselves. When my Dad was growing up, people had full time jobs at 16 years old and were married with kids by 25, where as today, the average person doesn't even graduate college before 23. I'm not blaming the children for that.
  - morgante 11y ago
    Stop calling us "children." It's offense and rude. How very convenient that the cutoff of adulthood is your own age—if you're going to insult vast numbers of functional adults, at least insult yourself in the process. Silly child. First of all, you are in fact wrong. The majority of young adults do in fact live independently. [0] Second of all, if you think that adulthood isn't reached until 25, why would you be advocating for reinforcing this supposed infantilization? [0] http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/07/29/more-snake http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/07/29/more-snake people-living-with-family-despite-improved-job-market/
    - Unklejoe 11y ago
      The link you posted doesn't seem to work. [How very convenient that the cutoff of adulthood is your own age] I chose the number 25 because it is usually a few years after most people have graduated college and have entered the work force. The number 25 is used in many places as a "special" age. Insurance companies, rental car companies, hotel bookings, etc... [you're going to insult vast numbers of functional adults, at least insult yourself in the process. Silly child.] I don't know about your peers, but from my graduating class of ~1000, I would guess there were less than 100 who were completely independent by 23. [First of all, you are in fact wrong. The majority of young adults do in fact live independently.] I'll do some research on that.
slavik81 11y ago
Many adults make bad decisions their whole lives.
- IndianAstronaut 11y ago
  Probably one of the biggest mistakes is not learning more skills and different skills. In this era of online learning, there is really no excuse for not spending a couple hours bere and there to learn something new or different.
maaku 11y ago
Mildly related, but for a while I've felt we should change the age of majority / self responsibility to age 25. It would improve a lot of things about society...
- knz 11y ago
  Personally I think the opposite is true to some degree. Age does not guarantee that you are a rational and well informed citizen. I've also read numerous articles about how young people are more tolerant (gay marriage is a good example), moving back into dense urban areas (causing less sprawl and a renewed interest in better public transport and urban planning), and willing to at least admit that major challenges like anthropogenic climate change are real. Society can learn from people of all ages, but often the enthusiasm and free time of youth is what is needed to drive real societal change.
  - maaku 11y ago
    I'm not sure what that has to do with age of responsibility? The statistical facts are there to show that people under the age of 25 have generally impaired judgement compared with those over. (Among other things that's why you can't rent cars until 25.)
serge2k 11y ago
Okay, lets also ban anyone under 25 from joining the army.