4 ms·

Can see it now. Pop out more children, get more money. This incentives baby making. Which might actually be a good thing in countries with declining birth rates

by dalore 10y ago

Can see it now. Pop out more children, get more money. This incentives baby making. Which might actually be a good thing in countries with declining birth rates.

danharaj 10y ago
If you think it's so rational to have children for cash, you can go do it. I've never met anyone who actually thinks it's a good idea. It's always a hypothetical to malign the poor. Because people who malign the poor know exactly how poor people think, or something.
- Unklejoe 10y ago
  Do you really not believe that some people would start having children for the sole purpose of income if there was suddenly a program that provided people with $10,000 per year in cash for every child they have? Having children for financial benefits is a real thing. It's not just something people accuse the poor of for the purpose of hate (although it is commonly used in such a way). It's usually not as direct as "let me have this kid so I can get my rebate check", but it's certainly a consideration for many people who are poor. The mentality is more along the lines of "I can't make it by myself, but as a family, we might be able to sustain ourselves". Most people are aware that it will probably end up costing them more in the long run, but people do crazy things in desperate times.
  - PietdeVries 10y ago
    And the bad thing is, that it's in general not the cleverest set of people that make extra kids to get a higher income. Overall, the more educated people are, the smaller their families are. So this will effectively reverse everything that Darwin claimed: no survival of the fittest, but victory by the 'stupid' by overpowering the educated... Edit: yes, I do, but I am unsure if it will stand the test of Hacker News readers :) https://www.jstor.org/stable/2172480?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents https://www.jstor.org/stable/2172480?seq=1#page_scan_tab_con... http://www.iqtestexperts.com/iq-family.php http://www.iqtestexperts.com/iq-family.php
  - fucking_tragedy 10y ago
    Do you have a citation for your belief?
- creshal 10y ago
  > I've never met anyone who actually thinks it's a good idea. I see you haven't met my mother. Count yourself lucky. Those people exist – there's some quite generous child benefit programs in some EU countries, and the math seems to be simple –, but they're far more rare than the "OMG WELFARE PARASITES" would want you to believe. (And in many cases child protection agencies intervene and get the kids off to safety, because as it turns out, people using kids as money presses tend to have a screw loose or five.) And honestly, I don't see the problem. People get kids for all the wrong reasons, people abuse their kids for all the wrong reasons; that won't get significantly worse. At the same time, fewer kids will grow up in crippling poverty and have their lives ruined before they turn 10 because their parents can't afford to give them any useful education outside the bare minimum provided by public schools.
ArkyBeagle 10y ago
This runs smack into Bismarck's Welfare/Warfare State idea - the "excess" were cannon fodder for use in further conquest.

by dalore 10y ago

Can see it now. Pop out more children, get more money. This incentives baby making. Which might actually be a good thing in countries with declining birth rates.

danharaj 10y ago

If you think it's so rational to have children for cash, you can go do it. I've never met anyone who actually thinks it's a good idea. It's always a hypothetical to malign the poor. Because people who malign the poor know exactly how poor people think, or something.

Unklejoe 10y ago
Do you really not believe that some people would start having children for the sole purpose of income if there was suddenly a program that provided people with $10,000 per year in cash for every child they have? Having children for financial benefits is a real thing. It's not just something people accuse the poor of for the purpose of hate (although it is commonly used in such a way). It's usually not as direct as "let me have this kid so I can get my rebate check", but it's certainly a consideration for many people who are poor. The mentality is more along the lines of "I can't make it by myself, but as a family, we might be able to sustain ourselves". Most people are aware that it will probably end up costing them more in the long run, but people do crazy things in desperate times.
- PietdeVries 10y ago
  And the bad thing is, that it's in general not the cleverest set of people that make extra kids to get a higher income. Overall, the more educated people are, the smaller their families are. So this will effectively reverse everything that Darwin claimed: no survival of the fittest, but victory by the 'stupid' by overpowering the educated... Edit: yes, I do, but I am unsure if it will stand the test of Hacker News readers :) https://www.jstor.org/stable/2172480?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents https://www.jstor.org/stable/2172480?seq=1#page_scan_tab_con... http://www.iqtestexperts.com/iq-family.php http://www.iqtestexperts.com/iq-family.php
- fucking_tragedy 10y ago
  Do you have a citation for your belief?
creshal 10y ago
> I've never met anyone who actually thinks it's a good idea. I see you haven't met my mother. Count yourself lucky. Those people exist – there's some quite generous child benefit programs in some EU countries, and the math seems to be simple –, but they're far more rare than the "OMG WELFARE PARASITES" would want you to believe. (And in many cases child protection agencies intervene and get the kids off to safety, because as it turns out, people using kids as money presses tend to have a screw loose or five.) And honestly, I don't see the problem. People get kids for all the wrong reasons, people abuse their kids for all the wrong reasons; that won't get significantly worse. At the same time, fewer kids will grow up in crippling poverty and have their lives ruined before they turn 10 because their parents can't afford to give them any useful education outside the bare minimum provided by public schools.

ArkyBeagle 10y ago

This runs smack into Bismarck's Welfare/Warfare State idea - the "excess" were cannon fodder for use in further conquest.