3 ms·

If the market rate for dirty jobs goes up, will the basic income be enough, or will I struggle to pay for my waste collection (and everything else) on the basic

by rlpb 11y ago

If the market rate for dirty jobs goes up, will the basic income be enough, or will I struggle to pay for my waste collection (and everything else) on the basic income alone?

empressplay 11y ago
Which is a good point. Ultimately all costs get passed on to the consumer -- so where does it end?
- panic 11y ago
  As costs go up, consumers buy less. There's a certain price which maximizes profit: that's where it ends.
  - empressplay 11y ago
    Exactly. I have 5 apples. There are 5 people willing to pay at least $2 for them, so I sell them for $2. That's basic economics. With a basic income, now most of these people have more money. So I can charge $3 per apple, and even if I only sell 4 of them I still make $2 more than I made before. I eat the last apple myself, and the person who only has the basic income doesn't get an apple at all. I think universal welfare makes more sense.
    - panic 11y ago
      If you have a monopoly on the only five apples in the world, why were you charging only $2 in the first place? In a competitive economy, somebody else will be happy to sell an apple to the last person.
      - empressplay 11y ago
        In practice that's not true and I suggest you research the amount of fruit that's left to rot in fields because companies decide it's not worth selling it.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
    - sokoloff 11y ago
      However, the $12 you got in case B is not worth as much in the market as the $10 you go in case A, since the economy appears to have suffered 50% inflation in the meantime. Your $12 in case B has a purchasing power equivalent to $8 in case A.
- sergiosgc 11y ago
  It ends when the cost is so high that automation becomes cost-effective. Basic Income, as much as minimum wage, is a collective push towards skilled labor, away from menial tasks. In general terms, UBI seems sane. I see two implementation problems. First, worldwide society competition: Can my society support UBI and compete with China? Second, automatic system balancing. What is the correct UBI level? Can we leave it out to be hashed by politicians?

by rlpb 11y ago

If the market rate for dirty jobs goes up, will the basic income be enough, or will I struggle to pay for my waste collection (and everything else) on the basic income alone?

empressplay 11y ago

Which is a good point. Ultimately all costs get passed on to the consumer -- so where does it end?

panic 11y ago
As costs go up, consumers buy less. There's a certain price which maximizes profit: that's where it ends.
- empressplay 11y ago
  Exactly. I have 5 apples. There are 5 people willing to pay at least $2 for them, so I sell them for $2. That's basic economics. With a basic income, now most of these people have more money. So I can charge $3 per apple, and even if I only sell 4 of them I still make $2 more than I made before. I eat the last apple myself, and the person who only has the basic income doesn't get an apple at all. I think universal welfare makes more sense.
  - panic 11y ago
    If you have a monopoly on the only five apples in the world, why were you charging only $2 in the first place? In a competitive economy, somebody else will be happy to sell an apple to the last person.
    - empressplay 11y ago
      In practice that's not true and I suggest you research the amount of fruit that's left to rot in fields because companies decide it's not worth selling it.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
  - sokoloff 11y ago
    However, the $12 you got in case B is not worth as much in the market as the $10 you go in case A, since the economy appears to have suffered 50% inflation in the meantime. Your $12 in case B has a purchasing power equivalent to $8 in case A.
sergiosgc 11y ago
It ends when the cost is so high that automation becomes cost-effective. Basic Income, as much as minimum wage, is a collective push towards skilled labor, away from menial tasks. In general terms, UBI seems sane. I see two implementation problems. First, worldwide society competition: Can my society support UBI and compete with China? Second, automatic system balancing. What is the correct UBI level? Can we leave it out to be hashed by politicians?