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Many companies are reluctant to say anything about why they didn't choose you because there is no upside and potential legal downside for them. I don't know wh

Many companies are reluctant to say anything about why they didn't choose you because there is no upside and potential legal downside for them. I don't know what top 100 Putnam is or DE Shaw or how picky you are but I'm sure you are great.

pw0ncakes 17y ago
I am not going to sue them. Why would I waste a year of my life chasing a lawsuit that I can't win, having no legal leg to stand on, over a decision they have every right to make? However, the "black box" behavior of companies is pretty unprofessional. It makes the job search process a lot more difficult than it needs to be.
- brandon272 17y ago
  Just because you don't like a specific policy doesn't make it unprofessional. Employers have no duty to job applicants to help them through the qualification process.
  - pw0ncakes 17y ago
    "Employers have no duty to [X]" does not imply "[X] is not unprofessional". No one has any legal duty to be professional.
- WalterBright 17y ago
  Joel doesn't know you're not going to sue him. Lots of people file frivolous lawsuits against companies, in the hope of a settlement even if the lawsuit has no merit (it takes a lot of time and money to defend against frivolous suits). It makes no sense for him to expose himself to that sort of risk.
- lyudmil 17y ago
  All of your replies here suffer from the same logical flaw and many people have pointed it out. Fog Creek has a policy of not divulging their reasons for denying an applicant a certain position. Joel has given his arguments about why that is sound, so I will not bother to repeat them. You keep assuming that Fog Creek should know that it would be safe to make an exception in your case and getting offended that they choose not to. The fact is you should not be an exception. To make this as clear as possible, suppose you were trying to get pain killers without a prescription. No matter how obvious it is you're not a junkie and are in pain, it would not be appropriate for the pharmacy to sell you the medicine based on their subjective judgment. It may not matter in this instance, but it would undermine the whole system. The reason why I respond is because it has been frustrating for me to read your replies on this thread because this gap in reasoning has made all of your comments sound very personal. Anybody can sympathize with the frustration around being denied a job, but your story says nothing about Joel's management approach.
- mturmon 17y ago
  It's hard to be sure you would have no leg to stand on. It would be an emotionally charged conversation, and misinterpretation would be likely. If the hiring manager, for instance, said anything about a legally protected characteristic (like age or marital status, for example), it could be easily construed as illegal discrimination. One could make the communication written to avoid certain types of misunderstanding, but then you'd give the lawyers an actual document to play with. There is no upside. Remember that the hiring manager can be sued personally, not just the business. Finally, consider another factor. Most of the time there are several qualified candidates and one may stand out. That does not mean the others were bad, just that one candidate clicked. It is of negative value to say "Nothing personal, but we really hit it off with Mr. Foobar and not you." Silence is actually better than pronouncing an under-informed judgement on someone based on a series of half-hour interviews.

pw0ncakes 17y ago

I am not going to sue them. Why would I waste a year of my life chasing a lawsuit that I can't win, having no legal leg to stand on, over a decision they have every right to make? However, the "black box" behavior of companies is pretty unprofessional. It makes the job search process a lot more difficult than it needs to be.

brandon272 17y ago
Just because you don't like a specific policy doesn't make it unprofessional. Employers have no duty to job applicants to help them through the qualification process.
- pw0ncakes 17y ago
  "Employers have no duty to [X]" does not imply "[X] is not unprofessional". No one has any legal duty to be professional.
WalterBright 17y ago
Joel doesn't know you're not going to sue him. Lots of people file frivolous lawsuits against companies, in the hope of a settlement even if the lawsuit has no merit (it takes a lot of time and money to defend against frivolous suits). It makes no sense for him to expose himself to that sort of risk.
lyudmil 17y ago
All of your replies here suffer from the same logical flaw and many people have pointed it out. Fog Creek has a policy of not divulging their reasons for denying an applicant a certain position. Joel has given his arguments about why that is sound, so I will not bother to repeat them. You keep assuming that Fog Creek should know that it would be safe to make an exception in your case and getting offended that they choose not to. The fact is you should not be an exception. To make this as clear as possible, suppose you were trying to get pain killers without a prescription. No matter how obvious it is you're not a junkie and are in pain, it would not be appropriate for the pharmacy to sell you the medicine based on their subjective judgment. It may not matter in this instance, but it would undermine the whole system. The reason why I respond is because it has been frustrating for me to read your replies on this thread because this gap in reasoning has made all of your comments sound very personal. Anybody can sympathize with the frustration around being denied a job, but your story says nothing about Joel's management approach.
mturmon 17y ago
It's hard to be sure you would have no leg to stand on. It would be an emotionally charged conversation, and misinterpretation would be likely. If the hiring manager, for instance, said anything about a legally protected characteristic (like age or marital status, for example), it could be easily construed as illegal discrimination. One could make the communication written to avoid certain types of misunderstanding, but then you'd give the lawyers an actual document to play with. There is no upside. Remember that the hiring manager can be sued personally, not just the business. Finally, consider another factor. Most of the time there are several qualified candidates and one may stand out. That does not mean the others were bad, just that one candidate clicked. It is of negative value to say "Nothing personal, but we really hit it off with Mr. Foobar and not you." Silence is actually better than pronouncing an under-informed judgement on someone based on a series of half-hour interviews.