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It's really hard to give much credit to an article talking about "Europeans" and "Americans" as if these were homogeneous groups.
by sgdesign 10y ago
It's really hard to give much credit to an article talking about "Europeans" and "Americans" as if these were homogeneous groups.
- coldtea 10y agoHere are a few hints for reading these things: 1) Nothing is homogeneous. Even a single static object is not 100% the same now compared to how it was 10 days ago. But in order to make any observation, one has to generalize to the point that has statistical significance. 2) Despite saying Europeans and Americans such articles don't mean ALL Europeans and ALL Americans. For Europeans they mostly mean Western Europe: Germany, France, Switzerland, Netherlands, Belgium, Austria, etc. For Americans they mostly mean the stereotypical middle class suburban American, not a Manhattanite yuppie, nor some Idaho farmer, or "white trash". 3) The idea is not to see if the article's observations hold 100%, but whether they hold more often than not.
- pif 10y ago> For Europeans they mostly mean Western Europe: Western Europe includes Italy, Spain, Portugal and UK, too. As soon as I read the title, I thought to children in my country (Italy) and I saw the enormous gap.
- coldtea 10y ago>Western Europe includes Italy, Spain, Portugal and UK, too. It does, but there's also the North/South division (even within a single country, like Italy, but even more so generally). South Europe is not really "Western" in this sense (and in other senses, e.g. with respect to religious heritage and ethics, catholicism and orthodoxy vs protestants, etc).
- wowoc 10y agoWhat? Italy is not "Western"? Well, your definition of Western Europe is very weird. Italy is one of the foundations of Western Europe. What you wrote about religious heritage is also weird... Protestant Austria? France? What you're meaning is just Germanic countries (except France).
- Annatar 10y agoHis definition of Western Europe would also be my definition. Western European states have a high standard of living, low levels of corruption compared to Italy, well maintained and developed infrastructure, low levels of unemployment, and discipline. Compare and contrast with Italy, Spain, or Portugal.
- Oletros 10y agoThose comments sound a little stereotypical and xenophobic
- spyrosg 10y agoHe does, but I don't think name calling will change his mind. Besides, let's be honest, his ideas are already there in most people's minds. To the grandparent: Luxembourg's dirty secret is corruption. France has high unemployment. Standards of living are actually pretty nice under the sun, and outside of the high-pay but nerve-wracking shitty weather of "the north". I agree on the more discipline part, but only when it comes to public behaviour. Where in western Europe have you lived?
- Oletros 10y agoThanks, I will rephrase it to not sound so harsh
- Annatar 10y agoStereotypes exist for a reason, although people try to drown them out in public because they think that makes them look better. I'm just not being a hypochrite in this particular instance, that's all. Sorry to burst your bubble.
- Oletros 10y agoYap, and Southern European people is lazy, Jews are greedy and Arabs are terrorists. Because stereotypes exist for a reason.
- kome 10y ago> South Europe is not really "Western" What?
- Annatar 10y agoBecause { (South != West) && (!Discipline != Discipline) && (SouthEuropeanMentality != WesternEuropeanMentality) && (SouthEuropeanValues != WesternEuropeanValues); }
- kome 10y agoWestern Europe is a well established geographical and historical reality, and vague, a-historical concepts like "Discipline" and "Mentality" have no value, at all. Italy, France or Spain are the cradle of Western Europe, along with a bunch of other countries. I lived in 4 different countries in continental Europe (France, Switzerland, Italy and the Netherlands) and while, of course, there are differences, it is staggering the quantity of shared things, in the daily life…
- Annatar 10y agoBut we were not discussing whether those three countries were the cradles of European civilization (undisputedly so) but what Western Europe is in contemporary times. No amount of calling bullshit is going to change the fact that Spain and Italy are mired by corruption scandals. The root cause of that is the mentality, the way of thinking, and lack of discipline: "to hell with everyone else as long as I have plenty to eat, guzzle, and screw". The results speak for themselves. For instance, what is the unemployment rate in Spain, especially among the younger generation? Why?
- register 10y agoCatholic religion has been the founding religion of the medieval Europe . I hope that I don't have to remind you that , in ancient times, kings were crowned by Popes in France and UK. All other variations of Christian religions were created as a result of struggle powers. In the 14-15th centuries Italians were leading innovators and bankers from Florence were lending money to England and France kings. Back in that time the most common Language in business Europe was a derivation of Italian. Italy is one of the foundation of Western Europe, both historically and culturally. Denying this is ignoring history. P.S: I guess that children in Italy were running and screaming quite a lot also at the time...
- coldtea 10y ago>Catholic religion has been the founding religion of the medieval Europe Yes. And then the reformation happened -- and the power has since long been gone from the catholic europe.
- rakoo 10y ago> For Europeans they mostly mean Western Europe It's much more accurate to divide Europe between the Northern, Germanic (Germany, UK, Scandinavia, Netherlands, Austria), the Southern, Latin (France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece) and the Eastern, Slavic. Of course the separations aren't so clear-cut, but I am under the impression that when I read something about "Why are the Europeans so much better" it often matches the Northern category.
- abalashov 10y agoIt's really hard to give much credit to anything talking about anything of nontrivial size and diversity, if that's your objection...
- wfo 10y agoMuch like it's hard to give much credit to sentences that use common nouns at all; we would be better off without them, they only lead to generalizations. In fact, I should take it all back, for I find in the process of communicating like a normal human I've generalized the very notion of improper nouns. Not all improper nouns are the same. And I've generalized generalizations themselves; not all of them are bad. Mea culpa.