7 ms·

I'd like to point out that German economy and by extension, regular Germans, heavily depend on exports to the US. So, reducing frictions in trade between US an

I'd like to point out that German economy and by extension, regular Germans, heavily depend on exports to the US. So, reducing frictions in trade between US and Europe should make regular Germans better off not worse off. How do you suppose German economy works ?

maxxxxx 11y ago
I know Germany benefits big time from exports. But the benefits have stopped going to the workers. Like in the US wages are stagnating while the "economy" supposedly is doing well.
- vasilipupkin 11y ago
  Really? How do you think Germany gets resources to pay for all the social benefits, pensions etc. if you think growth has stopped, then measures to raise it are a good thing
  - morsch 11y ago
    Growth has continued, net real wages haven't[0]. Although this seems to be changing[1]. [0] http://www.diw.de/sixcms/detail.php?id=diw_01.c.342374.de http://www.diw.de/sixcms/detail.php?id=diw_01.c.342374.de [1] http://www.dw.com/en/germans-enjoy-highest-real-wage-rise-in-decades/a-19026620 http://www.dw.com/en/germans-enjoy-highest-real-wage-rise-in...
  - maxxxxx 11y ago
    There would be much less need for social benefits if the pay had kept up with growth. There is a whole generation of perpetual interns (Praktikant) because companies don't hire full-timers.
gech 11y ago
" should make regular Germans better off " Please define a metric that we can use to establish this.
- vasilipupkin 11y ago
  gdp per capita growth as well as sustainable financial situation so that German state can meet its social obligations without a fiscal crisis like in Greece
  - brandmeyer 11y ago
    I don't think GDP/capita is enough, since it is taking an average of a highly skewed distribution. We really need something closer to a median: How about inflation-adjusted median income? Or perhaps inflation-adjusted median income after housing.
  - mSparks 11y ago
    I live (now) in a country with a GDP per capita an order of magnitude less than the US. Having just come come back from the US. I can say without doubt. There is much less poverty here. The average citizens quality of life here is an order of magnitude better than the us. Funnily enough. Money isn't everything. Stuff like personal freedoms. Social interaction. Inequity are much more important IMHO.
    - vasilipupkin 11y ago
      Which country ? If GDP per capita in your country is an order of magnitude less, I question your assertion
jethro_tell 11y ago
The most likely outcome of this is that exports are sold at the price they are at now, not cheaper. The workers are paid the same as they are now, (which is the market rate). And the difference in what's normal and cost savings from TTIP will go to company bottom line. And the top officers at the company will collect a performance bonus. The unlikely scenario is that the price comes down and more units are sold and/or the difference in export costs is divided between the workers to pay them above market rate.
- vasilipupkin 11y ago
  And the company and the executives pay taxes from the bottom line Thus, according to your own logic, the state, which pays social security and benefits is better off and is more fiscally sound
  - jethro_tell 11y ago
    I don't think the goal is getting more money into the coffers of the state. But, if that's a big win for you I guess it makes sense.
    - vasilipupkin 11y ago
      Well, in Germany people get pensions and benefits from the state. So, if your goal is to not have to reduce those, then yes, getting money into the coffers of the state is partially the goal
      - jethro_tell 11y ago
        Sure, so the company can pay pennies on the dollar for pensions for employees after a life time of service. What a great deal? What actually ends up happening is the people who carry the tax burden ( workers ) end up paying their own pensions. Which is fine, as long as we aren't pretending that the pensions is a benefit of working.
  - maxxxxx 11y ago

maxxxxx 11y ago

I know Germany benefits big time from exports. But the benefits have stopped going to the workers. Like in the US wages are stagnating while the "economy" supposedly is doing well.

vasilipupkin 11y ago
Really? How do you think Germany gets resources to pay for all the social benefits, pensions etc. if you think growth has stopped, then measures to raise it are a good thing
- morsch 11y ago
  Growth has continued, net real wages haven't[0]. Although this seems to be changing[1]. [0] http://www.diw.de/sixcms/detail.php?id=diw_01.c.342374.de http://www.diw.de/sixcms/detail.php?id=diw_01.c.342374.de [1] http://www.dw.com/en/germans-enjoy-highest-real-wage-rise-in-decades/a-19026620 http://www.dw.com/en/germans-enjoy-highest-real-wage-rise-in...
- maxxxxx 11y ago
  There would be much less need for social benefits if the pay had kept up with growth. There is a whole generation of perpetual interns (Praktikant) because companies don't hire full-timers.

gech 11y ago

" should make regular Germans better off " Please define a metric that we can use to establish this.

vasilipupkin 11y ago
gdp per capita growth as well as sustainable financial situation so that German state can meet its social obligations without a fiscal crisis like in Greece
- brandmeyer 11y ago
  I don't think GDP/capita is enough, since it is taking an average of a highly skewed distribution. We really need something closer to a median: How about inflation-adjusted median income? Or perhaps inflation-adjusted median income after housing.
- mSparks 11y ago
  I live (now) in a country with a GDP per capita an order of magnitude less than the US. Having just come come back from the US. I can say without doubt. There is much less poverty here. The average citizens quality of life here is an order of magnitude better than the us. Funnily enough. Money isn't everything. Stuff like personal freedoms. Social interaction. Inequity are much more important IMHO.
  - vasilipupkin 11y ago
    Which country ? If GDP per capita in your country is an order of magnitude less, I question your assertion

jethro_tell 11y ago

The most likely outcome of this is that exports are sold at the price they are at now, not cheaper. The workers are paid the same as they are now, (which is the market rate). And the difference in what's normal and cost savings from TTIP will go to company bottom line. And the top officers at the company will collect a performance bonus. The unlikely scenario is that the price comes down and more units are sold and/or the difference in export costs is divided between the workers to pay them above market rate.

vasilipupkin 11y ago
And the company and the executives pay taxes from the bottom line Thus, according to your own logic, the state, which pays social security and benefits is better off and is more fiscally sound
- jethro_tell 11y ago
  I don't think the goal is getting more money into the coffers of the state. But, if that's a big win for you I guess it makes sense.
  - vasilipupkin 11y ago
    Well, in Germany people get pensions and benefits from the state. So, if your goal is to not have to reduce those, then yes, getting money into the coffers of the state is partially the goal
    - jethro_tell 11y ago
      Sure, so the company can pay pennies on the dollar for pensions for employees after a life time of service. What a great deal? What actually ends up happening is the people who carry the tax burden ( workers ) end up paying their own pensions. Which is fine, as long as we aren't pretending that the pensions is a benefit of working.
- maxxxxx 11y ago