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Yes, but we can't pretend that the low quality of the defaults doesn't affect the quality of the good sub-reddits.

by Pxtl 11y ago

pavel_lishin 11y ago
Does it? A subreddit is as good as its moderators; a good team can keep a sub from being flooded with trolls, or even regulars who are unfamiliar with a sub's rules or culture.
- fragmede 11y ago
  It does. When a really nice niche subreddit is thrust into the lime-light by becoming a default, it usually dies from an influx of low-quality default users. If it doesn't die from that, the moderation team has to really step up their job - a job they're not getting paid to do which means moderation teams get overworked and burned out, and the quit and the sub dies from lack of moderation. If the subreddit is survives that, the more successful approach seems to be for moderation to become very heavy-handed, which does quite well in a number of places, but also forces a change to the subreddit's culture that was doing well before it became a default. If the answer is to not become a default sub, well, then the low-quality of the default has affected a good quality sub from becoming a default and prevented quality content from reaching more users. Unfortunately, a good moderation team doesn't just appear, and one way of acquiring talent is to gasp pay for it. Reddit's avoidance of paying moderators results in relying on unpaid volunteers to do the bulk of the work, so good teams are few and far between, and horrible racist troll-y shit is de jure. Reddit wants to be "the front page of the internet", but when the default not-logged-in front page features shit like "What's the difference between a feminist and a gun? (self.Jokes)" (pulled just now), it's never going to rise above being dismissed as the front page for horrible trolls, racists, and misogynists. If I'm supposed to make an account then wade through a pile of shit subreddits just to find an AskHistorians diamond or two, how about I just don't wade through the pile of shit at all?
  - pavel_lishin 11y ago
    > When a really nice niche subreddit is thrust into the lime-light by becoming a default Ah, I didn't realize you were talking about subreddits getting "promoted". That definitely sounds like a nightmare. I think that quality subs can bubble up slowly, with manageable growth, by virtue of being featured on r/bestof and the like.
  - ultraforce 11y ago
    I think some would be able to survive even the danger of being a default sub, for example either AskHistorians or AskAnthropologists just straight up deletes any top level comments without a source and are very ban happy leading to questions with only 5 answers, albeit all of decent quality.
  - jxramos 11y ago
    This made me just imagine an aristocracy of commentators where once a community grows to a certain size/popularity it locks up and others must be vetted into the group through some process I can't imagine yet.
    - Pxtl 11y ago
      Comment karma makes your upvotes/downvotes worth more? Let admins endorse power-users with the power to "bless" people with high vote-power, including a buff to the implicit self-upvote?
    - Tiksi 11y ago
      That's pretty much how every private tracker site has worked. Just s/seed/karma/ ratio and use the same process. Might as well take the whole system where power users/VIP users with higher ratio or who paid can get extra privileges.

Yes, but we can't pretend that the low quality of the defaults doesn't affect the quality of the good sub-reddits.

by Pxtl 11y ago

Yes, but we can't pretend that the low quality of the defaults doesn't affect the quality of the good sub-reddits.

Does it? A subreddit is as good as its moderators; a good team can keep a sub from being flooded with trolls, or even regulars who are unfamiliar with a sub's rules or culture.

fragmede 11y ago
It does. When a really nice niche subreddit is thrust into the lime-light by becoming a default, it usually dies from an influx of low-quality default users. If it doesn't die from that, the moderation team has to really step up their job - a job they're not getting paid to do which means moderation teams get overworked and burned out, and the quit and the sub dies from lack of moderation. If the subreddit is survives that, the more successful approach seems to be for moderation to become very heavy-handed, which does quite well in a number of places, but also forces a change to the subreddit's culture that was doing well before it became a default. If the answer is to not become a default sub, well, then the low-quality of the default has affected a good quality sub from becoming a default and prevented quality content from reaching more users. Unfortunately, a good moderation team doesn't just appear, and one way of acquiring talent is to gasp pay for it. Reddit's avoidance of paying moderators results in relying on unpaid volunteers to do the bulk of the work, so good teams are few and far between, and horrible racist troll-y shit is de jure. Reddit wants to be "the front page of the internet", but when the default not-logged-in front page features shit like "What's the difference between a feminist and a gun? (self.Jokes)" (pulled just now), it's never going to rise above being dismissed as the front page for horrible trolls, racists, and misogynists. If I'm supposed to make an account then wade through a pile of shit subreddits just to find an AskHistorians diamond or two, how about I just don't wade through the pile of shit at all?
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  > When a really nice niche subreddit is thrust into the lime-light by becoming a default Ah, I didn't realize you were talking about subreddits getting "promoted". That definitely sounds like a nightmare. I think that quality subs can bubble up slowly, with manageable growth, by virtue of being featured on r/bestof and the like.
- ultraforce 11y ago
  I think some would be able to survive even the danger of being a default sub, for example either AskHistorians or AskAnthropologists just straight up deletes any top level comments without a source and are very ban happy leading to questions with only 5 answers, albeit all of decent quality.
- jxramos 11y ago
  This made me just imagine an aristocracy of commentators where once a community grows to a certain size/popularity it locks up and others must be vetted into the group through some process I can't imagine yet.
  - Pxtl 11y ago
    Comment karma makes your upvotes/downvotes worth more? Let admins endorse power-users with the power to "bless" people with high vote-power, including a buff to the implicit self-upvote?
  - Tiksi 11y ago
    That's pretty much how every private tracker site has worked. Just s/seed/karma/ ratio and use the same process. Might as well take the whole system where power users/VIP users with higher ratio or who paid can get extra privileges.