7 ms·

The results of this study, while interesting, seem flawed to me because losing 200+lbs in only 8 months' time is ridiculously fast. I would be more interested i

The results of this study, while interesting, seem flawed to me because losing 200+lbs in only 8 months' time is ridiculously fast. I would be more interested in a study following people who lost weight very slowly and steadily over time, and curious about their metabolisms and recidivism rates. I've lost 100lbs over the last three years and have had zero issue (so far, not saying I won't ever) with keeping at this weight. I maintained the same weight, +/- 3lbs, for most of 2015 without counting calories or following a diet. In December 2015, I decided I was ready to start intentionally losing more weight, so I tracked calories and lost an additional 15lbs over the course of three months. My experience with losing weight and maintaining weight loss are completely different than the results of the study in the OP, and I am curious how much of that difference can be chalked up to how long it took me to lose that weight. Studies like the one in the OP are fascinating to me because no one seems to go "Hey, your body achieved homeostasis at 450lbs (maintaining that homeostasis for however many years the person was at that weight) and it probably royally screwed with everything dropping half your body weight in 8 month's time." It seems obvious to me that at that point the body is in full blown crisis mode trying to get back to the homeostasis it had developed previously. Eight months is not a long enough time to adapt to a new homeostasis, not to mention whether or not the body is freaking out because it's "starving" and dropping fat stores at such a high rate.

wobbleblob 10y ago
Maybe there's something different about the metabolism of people who manage to reach a weight of 450lbs in the first place. Without exercise and watching what you eat, almost everyone will gain weight, but most people never get anywhere close to the 300lbs+ range.
- sageabilly 10y ago
  Maybe! I was 305 at my heaviest, but I was also a serious powerlifter and was at the gym 10-15 hours a week lifting, plus training for competitions. I often wonder if having that strength base made it easier, in some ways, to drop the weight than if I had been totally sedentary and had to start from zero with regards to exercising.
  - xlm1717 10y ago
    Having a lot of muscle will increase your base metabolic rate. Being a serious powerlifter, I imagine the increase due to muscle was significant (speaking just as someone who reads into this, not as a qualified professional!). Also, being a powerlifter, if you don't maintain the muscles, they would atrophy, taking a lot of weight with them.
    - jwdunne 10y ago
      The last point is important. Many people claim that muscle turns into fat if not exercised for maintanence. This obviously isn't true. What is interesting is where that idea may come from: the habit of eating a larger amount of calories to power a huge masses of muscle that doesn't entirely go away along with the muscle without conscious planning.
    - sageabilly 10y ago
      Interestingly enough, I stopped powerlifting about a year ago and the atrophy hasn't happened as quickly or as much as I thought it would. Now, I say that with the caveat that I have NO idea how big my muscles were when I was at my strongest (which is also when I was 300 pounds), but I still have 25+ pounds of muscle that I didn't have the last time I was the size I am now (scientifically deduced from being able to fit into the same pair of pants that I did when I was 180lbs, when I am now 205lbs). I currently have a knee injury that's keeping me from doing any lower body lifts, and am only doing upper body bodybuilding style stuff twice a week. I'm absolutely not as strong as I used to be, but I'm still muscular... although, again, don't know how much of that is a hold-over from my powerlifting heyday because at the time I was like a muscular manatee... couldn't see the muscles for all the blubber on top. [edit] 5'11", about 1.80 meters
      - thirdstation 10y ago
        How tall are you?
- Aelinsaar 10y ago
  In my experience, this is the case. Or at least, it's the case after they reach that weight and maintain it for a significant period of time. I don't think there is any clear indication of which comes first though.
- emodendroket 10y ago
  True enough, but those are just more extreme cases of a trend we see pretty widely.
- stupidcar 10y ago
  Well, clearly the contestants were at the far end of the weight spectrum to begin with, but regaining weight after an intensive, successful weight loss programme isn't rare, even for people who were only mildly to moderately overweight. That suggests that their problems aren't unique to their particular metabolisms, just more extreme. Also, their pre-competition metabolic rate was normal for their size, and after their weight loss it cratered, and never properly recovered. Even if they had pre-existing physical or psychological abnormalities that contributed to their heaviness, this is a clear, objective measurement that started normal and has become different, simply through losing weight.
jschwartzi 10y ago
It's pretty well-known that if you drop more than 2 lbs/week you're very likely to gain it all back later.
- emodendroket 10y ago
  Do you have any source for the claim that if you lose it slower you're more likely to keep it off? While intuitively appealing, I keep seeing it without any evidence.
  - chris_wot 10y ago
    I can't find the source now, but years ago in an agricultural class in high school I was told that studies had been done on weight recovery in cattle who had been through drought conditions and who were either malnuritied or had lost significant weight. I believe the results were that the cattle recovered and increased their weight after this occurred. Wish I could find that study! But it would be an interesting hypothesis to test for: if someone reduced their calorific content too quickly then the body will attempt to compensate when normal eating resumes. Obviously it would need to use animals and a control group but it might be insightful.
    - DanBC 10y ago
      > Wish I could find that study! But it would be an interesting hypothesis to test for: if someone reduced their calorific content too quickly then the body will attempt to compensate when normal eating resumes. Obviously it would need to use animals and a control group but it might be insightful. There's a natural experiment of sorts in re-feeding people with anorexia. Many people think this is a risky time because they think it's easy for someone to gain wieght too rapidly. (I'm not talking about the related, but different, "refeeding syndrome" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refeeding_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refeeding_syndrome)
      - chris_wot 10y ago
        Interesting! Evidently this is a bit of a hot topic though, I seem to have raised the ire of some, but others found my comment interesting. Very good info, though I honestly don't think it was exactly what I was thinking of. I'll keep looking for that info...
gmarx 10y ago
How many times have you lost and regained? I ask because I am a little older and have done that cycle multiple times. This last time I am going on a decade without periods of large weight gain. The first time you lose a lot of weight you feel like you have it mastered and that is one of the ways your brain gets you. Eventually you figure you have it handled, relax and then two years goes by and you are heaver than when you started. I've done that at least 3 times
- sageabilly 10y ago
  First time ever. I had an eating disorder my whole life, which is how and why I gained up to 300lbs in the first place. I no longer have the mental issues that caused me to turn to food for comfort, which is what I credit my successful weight loss to. And again, I lost the first 75lbs or so just through recovering from my eating disorder and not through dieting or changing anything about what I ate other than no longer turning to food for comfort and not listening to the binge urges my brain was sending out. Eventually you figure you have it handled, relax and then two years goes by and you are heavier than when you started. Having maintained within +/- 3 lbs for the entirety of 2015 I'm not worried about this in the slightest. Even though at that time I was not actively trying to lose weight, I still weighed myself every week and took measurements every month, as well as continued to exercise regularly (and even learned how to ride a bike!) I also maintained vigilance for ED-type thoughts and identified them quickly if I began relapsing. I absolutely adjusted my eating if I gained more than 2 pounds in a week or when I knew I'd been letting my vigilance slip. Still didn't count calories or anything, just mindfully ate smaller portions and stayed away from desserts for a while. It helped a lot that I have learned that if I eat sugary stuff more than two days in a row I start craving it badly and will eat it every single day unless I stop eating it entirely for at least two weeks. I view my weight loss as the side effect of recovering from my unhealthy relationship with food. For me, that was bad enough that it was a full-blown eating disorder, but I absolutely believe that many people have an unhealthy relationship with food which causes weight gain that is impossible to reverse without first addressing the mental issues that got them to that weight in the first place. Take that and add in this new potential issue of the body wanting desperately to get back to the homeostasis it was at when the person was at their heaviest, and the rebounding of everyone who was on The Biggest Loser is no surprise.
tzs 10y ago
I seem similar. I've lost 92 lbs over 8 months, and I don't seem to be having problems. In particular, I'm not having any feelings of hunger. I've pretty consistently been averaging a tad under 2000 calories/day, 35% carbs, 21% proteins, 44% fats. One interesting thing is that if I go significantly over 2000 calories in a day, which happens maybe once every couple of weeks, I find myself automatically eating less the next day. For example, last Thursday I went over (2390), and then Friday I went way under (1150). I went over Saturday (2240), and under Sunday (1740). I'm hoping the fact that I'm not feeling hungry eating this way, and the fact that if I go over my goal I automatically go under afterwards means that my body is adapting well to the way I'm eating and so I won't have trouble continuing to lose weight and keeping it off. I've done similar twice before. Those ultimately failed, but I believe I know why. Both times I changed my eating habits, lost weight, and it was staying off. Then both times I had major career changes that threw my schedule into disarray. I didn't have time usually for home prepared meals or sit down restaurant meals. For instance in the first case I was working at a small consulting firm that specialized in taking contracts to step in on failing firmware projects for new hardware and redesign/rewrite the firmware--and these were fixed price contracts with hard deadlines and penalties for missing the deadlines. I'd often be in the office very late, and by the time I realized I needed food the only places open were fast food drive throughs, or the Dominos half a block down the street. Next time I have a job change, I'm going to make sure that the new job won't mess up my eating habits even if it means taking lower pay.
- marpstar 10y ago
  As someone who (over the last 6 years has) lost 65 lbs (245>180), regained 45 (225), lost 40 (185), and am now up 25 and back at 210 I can tell you that this will creep up on you if you don't remain diligent about sticking to your new eating habits. Sugar addiction has continually crept back in my life despite sticking to low carb diets for almost a year on more than one occasion.
  - sdoering 10y ago
    I second this. Sadly I am up about 35 pounds from when I hit bottom. Sugar-addiction, at least for me, is harder to beat then smoking. I am able to go without sugar for one to two weeks and then it hits me and I binge on chocolate again. Hope to find the strength to restart my efforts. Does any of you have helpful suggestions?
cowardlydragon 10y ago
I contend you should then force it to adapt to a completely different athletic / exercise reality. Of course the problem is that people drop back into their same lifestyles, and American lifestyles are pathetically nonactive. Hint: 20 minutes 3 times a week is not "active". It's just better than pathetic.
kenjackson 10y ago
The article did also talk about people who lost 360 calories per day by urinating it out. They also unwittingly at 200 more calories per day. This amounts to losing something like 1.5 pounds per month. But they also note that this increase in calories eaten is what causes weight gain later -- so even slow approaches hit the same problem. And while 3 years is good -- you really should watch for over 5-10 years. I previously lost about 40 pounds, and kept it off for about 6 years. Over the course of four years after that I gained most of it back. About 8 pounds per year like clockwork. I didn't even realize it was happening until I was 18 months or so into gaining the weight back. I did nothing different the first six years versus the last four. But something happened...

wobbleblob 10y ago

Maybe there's something different about the metabolism of people who manage to reach a weight of 450lbs in the first place. Without exercise and watching what you eat, almost everyone will gain weight, but most people never get anywhere close to the 300lbs+ range.

sageabilly 10y ago
Maybe! I was 305 at my heaviest, but I was also a serious powerlifter and was at the gym 10-15 hours a week lifting, plus training for competitions. I often wonder if having that strength base made it easier, in some ways, to drop the weight than if I had been totally sedentary and had to start from zero with regards to exercising.
- xlm1717 10y ago
  Having a lot of muscle will increase your base metabolic rate. Being a serious powerlifter, I imagine the increase due to muscle was significant (speaking just as someone who reads into this, not as a qualified professional!). Also, being a powerlifter, if you don't maintain the muscles, they would atrophy, taking a lot of weight with them.
  - jwdunne 10y ago
    The last point is important. Many people claim that muscle turns into fat if not exercised for maintanence. This obviously isn't true. What is interesting is where that idea may come from: the habit of eating a larger amount of calories to power a huge masses of muscle that doesn't entirely go away along with the muscle without conscious planning.
  - sageabilly 10y ago
    Interestingly enough, I stopped powerlifting about a year ago and the atrophy hasn't happened as quickly or as much as I thought it would. Now, I say that with the caveat that I have NO idea how big my muscles were when I was at my strongest (which is also when I was 300 pounds), but I still have 25+ pounds of muscle that I didn't have the last time I was the size I am now (scientifically deduced from being able to fit into the same pair of pants that I did when I was 180lbs, when I am now 205lbs). I currently have a knee injury that's keeping me from doing any lower body lifts, and am only doing upper body bodybuilding style stuff twice a week. I'm absolutely not as strong as I used to be, but I'm still muscular... although, again, don't know how much of that is a hold-over from my powerlifting heyday because at the time I was like a muscular manatee... couldn't see the muscles for all the blubber on top. [edit] 5'11", about 1.80 meters
    - thirdstation 10y ago
      How tall are you?
Aelinsaar 10y ago
In my experience, this is the case. Or at least, it's the case after they reach that weight and maintain it for a significant period of time. I don't think there is any clear indication of which comes first though.
emodendroket 10y ago
True enough, but those are just more extreme cases of a trend we see pretty widely.
stupidcar 10y ago
Well, clearly the contestants were at the far end of the weight spectrum to begin with, but regaining weight after an intensive, successful weight loss programme isn't rare, even for people who were only mildly to moderately overweight. That suggests that their problems aren't unique to their particular metabolisms, just more extreme. Also, their pre-competition metabolic rate was normal for their size, and after their weight loss it cratered, and never properly recovered. Even if they had pre-existing physical or psychological abnormalities that contributed to their heaviness, this is a clear, objective measurement that started normal and has become different, simply through losing weight.

jschwartzi 10y ago

It's pretty well-known that if you drop more than 2 lbs/week you're very likely to gain it all back later.

emodendroket 10y ago
Do you have any source for the claim that if you lose it slower you're more likely to keep it off? While intuitively appealing, I keep seeing it without any evidence.
- chris_wot 10y ago
  I can't find the source now, but years ago in an agricultural class in high school I was told that studies had been done on weight recovery in cattle who had been through drought conditions and who were either malnuritied or had lost significant weight. I believe the results were that the cattle recovered and increased their weight after this occurred. Wish I could find that study! But it would be an interesting hypothesis to test for: if someone reduced their calorific content too quickly then the body will attempt to compensate when normal eating resumes. Obviously it would need to use animals and a control group but it might be insightful.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    > Wish I could find that study! But it would be an interesting hypothesis to test for: if someone reduced their calorific content too quickly then the body will attempt to compensate when normal eating resumes. Obviously it would need to use animals and a control group but it might be insightful. There's a natural experiment of sorts in re-feeding people with anorexia. Many people think this is a risky time because they think it's easy for someone to gain wieght too rapidly. (I'm not talking about the related, but different, "refeeding syndrome" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refeeding_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refeeding_syndrome)
    - chris_wot 10y ago
      Interesting! Evidently this is a bit of a hot topic though, I seem to have raised the ire of some, but others found my comment interesting. Very good info, though I honestly don't think it was exactly what I was thinking of. I'll keep looking for that info...

gmarx 10y ago

How many times have you lost and regained? I ask because I am a little older and have done that cycle multiple times. This last time I am going on a decade without periods of large weight gain. The first time you lose a lot of weight you feel like you have it mastered and that is one of the ways your brain gets you. Eventually you figure you have it handled, relax and then two years goes by and you are heaver than when you started. I've done that at least 3 times

sageabilly 10y ago
First time ever. I had an eating disorder my whole life, which is how and why I gained up to 300lbs in the first place. I no longer have the mental issues that caused me to turn to food for comfort, which is what I credit my successful weight loss to. And again, I lost the first 75lbs or so just through recovering from my eating disorder and not through dieting or changing anything about what I ate other than no longer turning to food for comfort and not listening to the binge urges my brain was sending out. Eventually you figure you have it handled, relax and then two years goes by and you are heavier than when you started. Having maintained within +/- 3 lbs for the entirety of 2015 I'm not worried about this in the slightest. Even though at that time I was not actively trying to lose weight, I still weighed myself every week and took measurements every month, as well as continued to exercise regularly (and even learned how to ride a bike!) I also maintained vigilance for ED-type thoughts and identified them quickly if I began relapsing. I absolutely adjusted my eating if I gained more than 2 pounds in a week or when I knew I'd been letting my vigilance slip. Still didn't count calories or anything, just mindfully ate smaller portions and stayed away from desserts for a while. It helped a lot that I have learned that if I eat sugary stuff more than two days in a row I start craving it badly and will eat it every single day unless I stop eating it entirely for at least two weeks. I view my weight loss as the side effect of recovering from my unhealthy relationship with food. For me, that was bad enough that it was a full-blown eating disorder, but I absolutely believe that many people have an unhealthy relationship with food which causes weight gain that is impossible to reverse without first addressing the mental issues that got them to that weight in the first place. Take that and add in this new potential issue of the body wanting desperately to get back to the homeostasis it was at when the person was at their heaviest, and the rebounding of everyone who was on The Biggest Loser is no surprise.

tzs 10y ago

I seem similar. I've lost 92 lbs over 8 months, and I don't seem to be having problems. In particular, I'm not having any feelings of hunger. I've pretty consistently been averaging a tad under 2000 calories/day, 35% carbs, 21% proteins, 44% fats. One interesting thing is that if I go significantly over 2000 calories in a day, which happens maybe once every couple of weeks, I find myself automatically eating less the next day. For example, last Thursday I went over (2390), and then Friday I went way under (1150). I went over Saturday (2240), and under Sunday (1740). I'm hoping the fact that I'm not feeling hungry eating this way, and the fact that if I go over my goal I automatically go under afterwards means that my body is adapting well to the way I'm eating and so I won't have trouble continuing to lose weight and keeping it off. I've done similar twice before. Those ultimately failed, but I believe I know why. Both times I changed my eating habits, lost weight, and it was staying off. Then both times I had major career changes that threw my schedule into disarray. I didn't have time usually for home prepared meals or sit down restaurant meals. For instance in the first case I was working at a small consulting firm that specialized in taking contracts to step in on failing firmware projects for new hardware and redesign/rewrite the firmware--and these were fixed price contracts with hard deadlines and penalties for missing the deadlines. I'd often be in the office very late, and by the time I realized I needed food the only places open were fast food drive throughs, or the Dominos half a block down the street. Next time I have a job change, I'm going to make sure that the new job won't mess up my eating habits even if it means taking lower pay.

marpstar 10y ago
As someone who (over the last 6 years has) lost 65 lbs (245>180), regained 45 (225), lost 40 (185), and am now up 25 and back at 210 I can tell you that this will creep up on you if you don't remain diligent about sticking to your new eating habits. Sugar addiction has continually crept back in my life despite sticking to low carb diets for almost a year on more than one occasion.
- sdoering 10y ago
  I second this. Sadly I am up about 35 pounds from when I hit bottom. Sugar-addiction, at least for me, is harder to beat then smoking. I am able to go without sugar for one to two weeks and then it hits me and I binge on chocolate again. Hope to find the strength to restart my efforts. Does any of you have helpful suggestions?

cowardlydragon 10y ago

I contend you should then force it to adapt to a completely different athletic / exercise reality. Of course the problem is that people drop back into their same lifestyles, and American lifestyles are pathetically nonactive. Hint: 20 minutes 3 times a week is not "active". It's just better than pathetic.

kenjackson 10y ago

The article did also talk about people who lost 360 calories per day by urinating it out. They also unwittingly at 200 more calories per day. This amounts to losing something like 1.5 pounds per month. But they also note that this increase in calories eaten is what causes weight gain later -- so even slow approaches hit the same problem. And while 3 years is good -- you really should watch for over 5-10 years. I previously lost about 40 pounds, and kept it off for about 6 years. Over the course of four years after that I gained most of it back. About 8 pounds per year like clockwork. I didn't even realize it was happening until I was 18 months or so into gaining the weight back. I did nothing different the first six years versus the last four. But something happened...