6 ms·

Seems like a perverse incentive to let them slow down the lines so you have to buy a "membership" in their precheck program. "Nice flight you have there...be a

Seems like a perverse incentive to let them slow down the lines so you have to buy a "membership" in their precheck program. "Nice flight you have there...be a shame if you missed it."

nemo44x 10y ago
Even the precheck lines have gotten out of hand in a few places I've been lately. In some cases it has been slower with so many people signed up and far less capacity to serve them.
jessriedel 10y ago
It's worse than just membership fees. To join a precheck program, you need to submit personal information that they constitutionally can't force American citizens to provide, even at international borders: fingerprints and retina scans. So basically they hold huge amounts of your time hostage in order to force you to provide what ought to be protected info. It's similar to incentives for long-term contraception. The government can't fine you for not taking contraception -- that would obviously be monstrous -- but they can raise taxes and then offer rebates to people who submit to it. It's lunacy. https://www.aclu.org/norplant-new-contraceptive-potential-abuse https://www.aclu.org/norplant-new-contraceptive-potential-ab...
- spdustin 10y ago
  No retina scan for PreCheck, that's for Global Entry / Nexus.
  - jessriedel 10y ago
    Yea, thanks. I was being sloppy and using "a precheck program" to refer collectively to Global Entry, Nexus, and PreCheck. Obviously, the argument still applies to PreCheck with regard to fingerprints.
  - grkvlt 10y ago
    No retina scan for anything, actually. NEXUS uses iris scanners [1] for biometric identification. In fact, pretty much anything that is reported as using a 'retina' scan is probably not, and is also an iris scan. Retinas are pretty useless as a biometric, and are quite hard to scan without opthamological equipment. Irises have the dual benefits of being unique to the individual, and visible on the outside of an individual. [1] http://usa.immigrationvisaforms.com/travel/nexus-iris-scan-locations http://usa.immigrationvisaforms.com/travel/nexus-iris-scan-l...
    - spdustin 10y ago
      Thanks for that clarification! I honestly never considered that technical aspect of the scans, as I do not have Global Entry, and I didn't know that retina scans are technically infeasible to utilize for ID purposes. You've given me something further to research: are iris scans harder to defeat with false information (like specialized contacts) than fingerprint scans (with whatever the hell they can be falsified with). There goes my morning! :)
    - sokoloff 10y ago
      Iris scans are optional for Nexus as well. It's only require if you want to use the Nexus stations to enter Canada by commercial air. I have a Nexus card (just got it last month) and if I only use it to enter Canada by land, sea, or private aircraft, I can skip the iris scan.
  - ibejoeb 10y ago
    Only NEXUS requires an iris scan, and only for entering Canada via an air border.
- cookiecaper 10y ago
  I don't think I'm really paranoid about my personal information. I remember a time when everyone's name, phone number, and address were published in a large white book and distributed to every home in the metro area. I think a lot of the hyperventilation about that stuff is a little over the top. However, I draw the line at biological data. That is permanent, irrevocable, unchangeable personal information that no one really has a right to. It's not like you can just go unlisted, change your number, or move to avoid the heat. It's a basic component of your being. That data should be closely guarded. It creeps me out that some gyms have started using the little fingerprint scanners to verify access. I don't travel that frequently, but I wouldn't get PreCheck because I want to keep that personal biological information private.
  - jessriedel 10y ago
    I actually don't care about any of that info. I'm just annoyed about the principle that the these sorts of end-arounds are allowed.
  - sokoloff 10y ago
    Philosophically, I agree, but it's a weak point of agreement. I've already been fingerprinted multiple times for the armed services, for background checks for financial services jobs, for pilot authorization to fly into the DC SFRA and land at the MD/DC-3 airports, and maybe a few other reasons. My fingerprints are already in multiple databases and I don't have particular concern about giving them one more time.
  - morgante 10y ago
    I personally don't see how something which I'm constantly leaving behind to strangers can be considered private data. It's personal but I don't think it's private.
untog 10y ago
I signed up for PreCheck and most of the times I've tried to use it they haven't even had it set up. Seems like more and more of a shameless money/personal info grab every day.
strictnein 10y ago
They did exactly that at MSP (Minneapolis/St. Paul), almost literally. They recently consolidated the checkpoints from 4 down to 2. No one knows why, but they did. Security immediately went from 30 minutes to 2 hours. They blamed everything from funding (which they received $91 million more than they asked for in 2016) to people's bags (which somehow changed overnight). When the local government and our fed reps complained, one of the people they sent to respond was a promoter/marketer specifically for pre-check.
- rsync 10y ago
  Ughh ... I am a regular user of MSP and was not aware of these changes: https://www.minnpost.com/dc-dispatches/2016/04/what-s-really-behind-security-delays-msp https://www.minnpost.com/dc-dispatches/2016/04/what-s-really... My pro tip is to fly sun country - you go from the international terminal in SFO to the HHH terminal in MPLS, both of which are nice, clean, modern and underutilized.
- cookiecaper 10y ago
  One time I went through, PreCheck was being hawked actively. Random people were getting automatic PreCheck allowances on their boarding passes so they could "try it out". Very commercial vibe around that.
  - wutbrodo 10y ago
    This happens all the time; I've gotten it quite a few times. I always assumed it was just to randomly lighten the load, but the commercial thing makes a lot of sense too.

Seems like a perverse incentive to let them slow down the lines so you have to buy a "membership" in their precheck program. "Nice flight you have there...be a shame if you missed it."

nemo44x 10y ago

Even the precheck lines have gotten out of hand in a few places I've been lately. In some cases it has been slower with so many people signed up and far less capacity to serve them.

jessriedel 10y ago

It's worse than just membership fees. To join a precheck program, you need to submit personal information that they constitutionally can't force American citizens to provide, even at international borders: fingerprints and retina scans. So basically they hold huge amounts of your time hostage in order to force you to provide what ought to be protected info. It's similar to incentives for long-term contraception. The government can't fine you for not taking contraception -- that would obviously be monstrous -- but they can raise taxes and then offer rebates to people who submit to it. It's lunacy. https://www.aclu.org/norplant-new-contraceptive-potential-abuse https://www.aclu.org/norplant-new-contraceptive-potential-ab...

spdustin 10y ago
No retina scan for PreCheck, that's for Global Entry / Nexus.
- jessriedel 10y ago
  Yea, thanks. I was being sloppy and using "a precheck program" to refer collectively to Global Entry, Nexus, and PreCheck. Obviously, the argument still applies to PreCheck with regard to fingerprints.
- grkvlt 10y ago
  No retina scan for anything, actually. NEXUS uses iris scanners [1] for biometric identification. In fact, pretty much anything that is reported as using a 'retina' scan is probably not, and is also an iris scan. Retinas are pretty useless as a biometric, and are quite hard to scan without opthamological equipment. Irises have the dual benefits of being unique to the individual, and visible on the outside of an individual. [1] http://usa.immigrationvisaforms.com/travel/nexus-iris-scan-locations http://usa.immigrationvisaforms.com/travel/nexus-iris-scan-l...
  - spdustin 10y ago
    Thanks for that clarification! I honestly never considered that technical aspect of the scans, as I do not have Global Entry, and I didn't know that retina scans are technically infeasible to utilize for ID purposes. You've given me something further to research: are iris scans harder to defeat with false information (like specialized contacts) than fingerprint scans (with whatever the hell they can be falsified with). There goes my morning! :)
  - sokoloff 10y ago
    Iris scans are optional for Nexus as well. It's only require if you want to use the Nexus stations to enter Canada by commercial air. I have a Nexus card (just got it last month) and if I only use it to enter Canada by land, sea, or private aircraft, I can skip the iris scan.
- ibejoeb 10y ago
  Only NEXUS requires an iris scan, and only for entering Canada via an air border.
cookiecaper 10y ago
I don't think I'm really paranoid about my personal information. I remember a time when everyone's name, phone number, and address were published in a large white book and distributed to every home in the metro area. I think a lot of the hyperventilation about that stuff is a little over the top. However, I draw the line at biological data. That is permanent, irrevocable, unchangeable personal information that no one really has a right to. It's not like you can just go unlisted, change your number, or move to avoid the heat. It's a basic component of your being. That data should be closely guarded. It creeps me out that some gyms have started using the little fingerprint scanners to verify access. I don't travel that frequently, but I wouldn't get PreCheck because I want to keep that personal biological information private.
- jessriedel 10y ago
  I actually don't care about any of that info. I'm just annoyed about the principle that the these sorts of end-arounds are allowed.
- sokoloff 10y ago
  Philosophically, I agree, but it's a weak point of agreement. I've already been fingerprinted multiple times for the armed services, for background checks for financial services jobs, for pilot authorization to fly into the DC SFRA and land at the MD/DC-3 airports, and maybe a few other reasons. My fingerprints are already in multiple databases and I don't have particular concern about giving them one more time.
- morgante 10y ago
  I personally don't see how something which I'm constantly leaving behind to strangers can be considered private data. It's personal but I don't think it's private.

untog 10y ago

I signed up for PreCheck and most of the times I've tried to use it they haven't even had it set up. Seems like more and more of a shameless money/personal info grab every day.

strictnein 10y ago

They did exactly that at MSP (Minneapolis/St. Paul), almost literally. They recently consolidated the checkpoints from 4 down to 2. No one knows why, but they did. Security immediately went from 30 minutes to 2 hours. They blamed everything from funding (which they received $91 million more than they asked for in 2016) to people's bags (which somehow changed overnight). When the local government and our fed reps complained, one of the people they sent to respond was a promoter/marketer specifically for pre-check.

rsync 10y ago
Ughh ... I am a regular user of MSP and was not aware of these changes: https://www.minnpost.com/dc-dispatches/2016/04/what-s-really-behind-security-delays-msp https://www.minnpost.com/dc-dispatches/2016/04/what-s-really... My pro tip is to fly sun country - you go from the international terminal in SFO to the HHH terminal in MPLS, both of which are nice, clean, modern and underutilized.
cookiecaper 10y ago
One time I went through, PreCheck was being hawked actively. Random people were getting automatic PreCheck allowances on their boarding passes so they could "try it out". Very commercial vibe around that.
- wutbrodo 10y ago
  This happens all the time; I've gotten it quite a few times. I always assumed it was just to randomly lighten the load, but the commercial thing makes a lot of sense too.