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I'm not sure I would consider DML and DDL statements complex programming APIs... To tune a database, you need to be able to look at what the query is trying to

I'm not sure I would consider DML and DDL statements complex programming APIs... To tune a database, you need to be able to look at what the query is trying to retrieve, know a bit about what you are storing, and know how to look at an execution plan. You can usually add an index, but it's often good to know that if you have a correlated subselect that uses an equality match in the where clause, then it's possible that you can influence the database engine by using an EXISTS clause instead - and it's probably more appropriate anyway because that's what you are attempting to find at any rate. The issue I take with your comment though is that "just store some damn bits" is not really what you are doing. You are adding in actual data into a system that needs to be retrieved effectively. The truth is, knowing the basics of a relational database should come easily to a developer, or at least one that has paid a bit of attention to set theory and relations. It's sort of funny in that I don't know if those who struggle with database concepts would have much more luck with a NoSQL engine like MongoDB. Each storage technology has it's own unique challenges, and eventually you are going to need to get to grips with somethat that seems "complex".

Retra 11y ago
I've had no trouble learning the basics of a relational databases. The problem is that the basics don't really transfer between implementations all that conveniently. It's like how I know the basics of processor architectures. There's registers and caches and interrupts. But now ask me to apply that to a specific machine's code? Now I've got to read the whole manual for that machine to figure out how the 'basics' apply to this particular machine.
- chris_wot 11y ago
  Everyone has their stumbling blocks, so I'm not judging you - only that I think it's not that hard for myself and an essential skill for mostly every app developer except in niche industries. But I guess I'm curious what your stumbling block is. Is the database servers themselves, or is it something like SQL that gets you? SQL was odd to me when I first looked at it due to its declarative nature, and having to think in sets. But it was quite intuitive once I used it for a little bit. Indexes... I knew about them from when I was learning about C++ data structures, so it should be a transferrable skill.
  - Retra 11y ago
    SQL is probably only 1/50th of what a modern database does. What is the proper method for returning a result set from a stored procedure? Is that a basic DB skill or not? Because that's the kind of thing I end up needing to know on day 2 of the (conceptually simple) queries that I need to implement. "Oh, this query didn't work well? I've done a pseudo-close?" The problem is that databases solve one very constrained subset of data storage needs elegantly, and then throw on a mountain of hacks to get the rest of the way there. Basic database knowledge gets you as far toward modeling real data in the same manner that basic arithmetic gets you an understanding of modern physics.

Retra 11y ago

I've had no trouble learning the basics of a relational databases. The problem is that the basics don't really transfer between implementations all that conveniently. It's like how I know the basics of processor architectures. There's registers and caches and interrupts. But now ask me to apply that to a specific machine's code? Now I've got to read the whole manual for that machine to figure out how the 'basics' apply to this particular machine.

chris_wot 11y ago
Everyone has their stumbling blocks, so I'm not judging you - only that I think it's not that hard for myself and an essential skill for mostly every app developer except in niche industries. But I guess I'm curious what your stumbling block is. Is the database servers themselves, or is it something like SQL that gets you? SQL was odd to me when I first looked at it due to its declarative nature, and having to think in sets. But it was quite intuitive once I used it for a little bit. Indexes... I knew about them from when I was learning about C++ data structures, so it should be a transferrable skill.
- Retra 11y ago
  SQL is probably only 1/50th of what a modern database does. What is the proper method for returning a result set from a stored procedure? Is that a basic DB skill or not? Because that's the kind of thing I end up needing to know on day 2 of the (conceptually simple) queries that I need to implement. "Oh, this query didn't work well? I've done a pseudo-close?" The problem is that databases solve one very constrained subset of data storage needs elegantly, and then throw on a mountain of hacks to get the rest of the way there. Basic database knowledge gets you as far toward modeling real data in the same manner that basic arithmetic gets you an understanding of modern physics.