3 ms·

Your argument is too complex to be sound.

chrischen 17y ago
Sorry I have a tendency to complicate my communications. Not sure exactly which part you thought was complicated, but I'll take a stab and reexplain this: good design is about fitting as much power into as intuitive an interface as possible. Simply removing things does not necessarily mean better design. It's like getting a car with raw power or good mileage. The trick is in getting as much of both as you can, but sometimes you may prefer one over the other.
- jacabado 17y ago
  I was trying to put down your argument against simplicity by poiting your argument's complexity. Hence the smart-ass downmod, I accept it. But I still disagree with you, there isn't a simple equilibrium between power and simplicity. And this is my interpretation of the Apple philosophy, I would bet I share it with many Mac users, and it's odd to me, not with you. The simplicity in the experience greatly determines the pleasure you take from it, and this determines the context where the "power exchange" happens. Your "power", or the value you get from a product/service is all determined in this context. Albeit being a techie, and having a special interface with these machines I can no longer stand more hurdles since I discovered that it hasn't to be like that. And it's such a nice discovery to make.
  - chrischen 17y ago
    let me first define simplicity. I do not mean it in the sense of lack of unecessary complexity. That is always a good thing. I mean it in the sense of removing complexity (any type of complexity). My argument's not that simplicity is bad. I'm saying that you can't just strip away things or a single button would always be the best product in the world. I'm not saying there's an equilibrium between power and simplicity. I'm saying the trick is in getting as much of both as pasible. I think it's not ludicrous to say that os x has a simpler user interface but you have just as much power as windows. The complexity is still there. It's just well hidden under intuitiveness. But the important thing is that os x didn't get there simply by having less features. Stripping away things doesn't always help make it better. Consider a video encoding tool. You could make the software easier to use by making it a file picker and a encode button. But this easier is relative to the user. You're definitely sacrifing some power. But if you hide advanced controls you can simplify th ui but removing often unused controls while keeping power features like codec selection available. But it's not just about simplifying by removing any and all features that a single group finds unecessary. It depends in your users. Ideally, all the power with all the simplicity.

Sorry I have a tendency to complicate my communications. Not sure exactly which part you thought was complicated, but I'll take a stab and reexplain this: good design is about fitting as much power into as intuitive an interface as possible. Simply removing things does not necessarily mean better design. It's like getting a car with raw power or good mileage. The trick is in getting as much of both as you can, but sometimes you may prefer one over the other.

jacabado 17y ago
I was trying to put down your argument against simplicity by poiting your argument's complexity. Hence the smart-ass downmod, I accept it. But I still disagree with you, there isn't a simple equilibrium between power and simplicity. And this is my interpretation of the Apple philosophy, I would bet I share it with many Mac users, and it's odd to me, not with you. The simplicity in the experience greatly determines the pleasure you take from it, and this determines the context where the "power exchange" happens. Your "power", or the value you get from a product/service is all determined in this context. Albeit being a techie, and having a special interface with these machines I can no longer stand more hurdles since I discovered that it hasn't to be like that. And it's such a nice discovery to make.
- chrischen 17y ago
  let me first define simplicity. I do not mean it in the sense of lack of unecessary complexity. That is always a good thing. I mean it in the sense of removing complexity (any type of complexity). My argument's not that simplicity is bad. I'm saying that you can't just strip away things or a single button would always be the best product in the world. I'm not saying there's an equilibrium between power and simplicity. I'm saying the trick is in getting as much of both as pasible. I think it's not ludicrous to say that os x has a simpler user interface but you have just as much power as windows. The complexity is still there. It's just well hidden under intuitiveness. But the important thing is that os x didn't get there simply by having less features. Stripping away things doesn't always help make it better. Consider a video encoding tool. You could make the software easier to use by making it a file picker and a encode button. But this easier is relative to the user. You're definitely sacrifing some power. But if you hide advanced controls you can simplify th ui but removing often unused controls while keeping power features like codec selection available. But it's not just about simplifying by removing any and all features that a single group finds unecessary. It depends in your users. Ideally, all the power with all the simplicity.