4 ms·

> 4. Who really cares about cross-platform code if all I do is on Linux? Most developers write their code on Windows and MacOS and then deploy on Linux. I'd sa

> 4. Who really cares about cross-platform code if all I do is on Linux? Most developers write their code on Windows and MacOS and then deploy on Linux. I'd say this "Write once run anywhere" thing was and still is a pretty big deal. > 5. Why does this program require 4GB of ram? Oh no! I need to buy a $5 piece of hardware to run this Java code? What kind of nonsense is that? > 6. Must I really download and install the JVM all the time, and what is it good for anyway? Once or twice a year, if you really want to. You update your browser much more often.

m_mueller 10y ago
> What kind of nonsense is that? .. and then someone gets the idea that your application should now run natively on Android phones, since they all run Java anyway, right?
- incepted 10y ago
  Yes, they all run Java. What's your point?
  - frankzinger 10y ago
    I'm guessing his point is that "4 GB" is a big problem on a phone.
    - incepted 10y ago
      Yes it is, but his number was an exaggeration in the first place. There are hundreds of millions of phones running Java today, what does that tell you?
      - m_mueller 10y ago
        The point is that memory still matters, not that Java is inherently a problem. You're shifting the goalpost here - earlier your claim was that 4GB is not a big deal since we can just buy more memory, now it's that 4GB is a ridiculous number anyway. It's not if you meet one of these typical "don't do any premature optimisations (even in the design phase of my data structures), because some important CS person said so"-designs. There's all too many programmers who think they should never have to care about hardware anymore.
goodplay 10y ago
> Oh no! I need to buy a $5 piece of hardware to run this Java code? What kind of nonsense is that? Funny. That's Microsoft line of thought with Vista.
throwaway_exer 10y ago
> Oh no! I need to buy a $5 piece of hardware to run this Java code? What kind of nonsense is that? 4 GB per program absolutely destroys VM consolidation. I love the look on managers' faces when they ask for a 1 GB VM and I ask them, "Is this for a Java program?" :)
- nixusg 10y ago
  Just adding some ram is also not so easy in an embedded system.
  - Hydraulix989 10y ago
    But the Java JRE update installer wizard for Windows touts the fact that Java is "in" thousands of embedded systems -- parking meters, toasters, etc.
    - dig1 10y ago
      Imagine, Java is run on your phone's SIM card. Enough? On other hand, on truly constrained embedded systems where real time is essential, no GC-based language has any business, no matter how GC is good. Even C++ is sometimes avoided.
      - pjmlp 10y ago
        You mean like missile radar control systems? http://www.pr.com/press-release/136232 http://www.pr.com/press-release/136232 Or do you prefer Aegis battleship Weapons System ? http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2402699 http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2402699 These are my favorite examples for Java being used in life critical situations.
        geodel 10y ago
        Well 2 thing stand out for me from links you mentioned: > The applications use a combination of Thales proprietary middleware written in C combined with Java code enabled by the Java™ Native Interface (JNI). > AONIX has additionally delivered professional services to help PERC Ultra users at Thales optimize their applications and improve execution performance including, a customer-specific training course handled the needs of coding in Java™ with hard real time constraints. Seems like with helping of C and Consulting on 'How to do Java right' they made it work. > End-to-end distributed thread timing constraints measured from stimulus to response are typically under 100 ms. Since it is slightly faster than typical (per char) typing speed on keyboard. It appears nice but terribly impressive real time Java use case.
viraptor 10y ago
> Once or twice a year, if you really want to. I really hope you actually mean 7+ times a year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history#Java_8_updates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history#Java_8_up... - most versions contained security updates.
- incepted 10y ago
  None of these updates are mandatory. You don't have to upgrade anything if you don't want to.
  - viraptor 10y ago
    If you looked at the issues and verified they're either not applicable in your case or don't affect your application, you already spent a lot of time on it. If you do install, you should verify your app still works. If not, you already spent time on analysis. The actual installation time is next to nothing compared to everything else around the "new jre came out" event. What I'm saying is - you should care 7+ times a year. Doesn't matter if you only update twice.

m_mueller 10y ago

> What kind of nonsense is that? .. and then someone gets the idea that your application should now run natively on Android phones, since they all run Java anyway, right?

incepted 10y ago
Yes, they all run Java. What's your point?
- frankzinger 10y ago
  I'm guessing his point is that "4 GB" is a big problem on a phone.
  - incepted 10y ago
    Yes it is, but his number was an exaggeration in the first place. There are hundreds of millions of phones running Java today, what does that tell you?
    - m_mueller 10y ago
      The point is that memory still matters, not that Java is inherently a problem. You're shifting the goalpost here - earlier your claim was that 4GB is not a big deal since we can just buy more memory, now it's that 4GB is a ridiculous number anyway. It's not if you meet one of these typical "don't do any premature optimisations (even in the design phase of my data structures), because some important CS person said so"-designs. There's all too many programmers who think they should never have to care about hardware anymore.

goodplay 10y ago

> Oh no! I need to buy a $5 piece of hardware to run this Java code? What kind of nonsense is that? Funny. That's Microsoft line of thought with Vista.

throwaway_exer 10y ago

> Oh no! I need to buy a $5 piece of hardware to run this Java code? What kind of nonsense is that? 4 GB per program absolutely destroys VM consolidation. I love the look on managers' faces when they ask for a 1 GB VM and I ask them, "Is this for a Java program?" :)

nixusg 10y ago
Just adding some ram is also not so easy in an embedded system.
- Hydraulix989 10y ago
  But the Java JRE update installer wizard for Windows touts the fact that Java is "in" thousands of embedded systems -- parking meters, toasters, etc.
  - dig1 10y ago
    Imagine, Java is run on your phone's SIM card. Enough? On other hand, on truly constrained embedded systems where real time is essential, no GC-based language has any business, no matter how GC is good. Even C++ is sometimes avoided.
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      You mean like missile radar control systems? http://www.pr.com/press-release/136232 http://www.pr.com/press-release/136232 Or do you prefer Aegis battleship Weapons System ? http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2402699 http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2402699 These are my favorite examples for Java being used in life critical situations.
      - geodel 10y ago
        Well 2 thing stand out for me from links you mentioned: > The applications use a combination of Thales proprietary middleware written in C combined with Java code enabled by the Java™ Native Interface (JNI). > AONIX has additionally delivered professional services to help PERC Ultra users at Thales optimize their applications and improve execution performance including, a customer-specific training course handled the needs of coding in Java™ with hard real time constraints. Seems like with helping of C and Consulting on 'How to do Java right' they made it work. > End-to-end distributed thread timing constraints measured from stimulus to response are typically under 100 ms. Since it is slightly faster than typical (per char) typing speed on keyboard. It appears nice but terribly impressive real time Java use case.

viraptor 10y ago

> Once or twice a year, if you really want to. I really hope you actually mean 7+ times a year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history#Java_8_updates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history#Java_8_up... - most versions contained security updates.

incepted 10y ago
None of these updates are mandatory. You don't have to upgrade anything if you don't want to.
- viraptor 10y ago
  If you looked at the issues and verified they're either not applicable in your case or don't affect your application, you already spent a lot of time on it. If you do install, you should verify your app still works. If not, you already spent time on analysis. The actual installation time is next to nothing compared to everything else around the "new jre came out" event. What I'm saying is - you should care 7+ times a year. Doesn't matter if you only update twice.