5 ms·

Capitalism always exists, whether you want to admit it or not. You can pretend there are no such things as prices by adding more and more epicycles to your mode

Capitalism always exists, whether you want to admit it or not. You can pretend there are no such things as prices by adding more and more epicycles to your model, or just admit they exist and then (for example) have a welfare state to compensate the non-winners.

andy_ppp 10y ago
The easiest solution is always capitalism, I agree, I'm fairly certain however it's harder to find somewhere to rent in London and paying more in Berlin still reaps results (having lived there as an IT contractor for 4 months from London I should know). I think these things can be solved in Berlin much more easily than most capital cities (i.e. there is substantial space to build new homes that simply doesn't exist in London or New York say). Simply saying "be more capitalist" might work, but I'd say build more quality homes on all the scratchy pieces of land that exist round Berlin is an equally good option above firing people into the weird world of London property. Finally the AirBnB/rentals thing is a result I'd guess of the massive number of people who hate having tourists traipsing through their buildings. My experience at least centrally was of large shared blocks of high quality flats and a lot of suspicion around strangers being granted entry to said gated communities.
- quanticle 10y ago
  Being more capitalist is how you create the incentives that result in more quality homes being built on the scratchy pieces of land that exist around Berlin.
  - disposeofnick9 10y ago
    It doesn't, actually. In the US, there are just a few apartment consortiums which own the lion's share of the fleet of newer construction units. Anarchist capitalism encourage supply-side monopolist hegemony, not competition. Competition is undesirable for capitalists when supplying goods and services and optimally minimized, it is desirable by buyers but this is mostly irrelevant in an artificially-controlled supply market where demand is inelastic. If Hyperloop were rolled out across most continents, empty land could be "closer" to economic centers and housing supply would be effectively increased by widening the commute radius, making it more affordable.
    - stale2002 10y ago
      How do you think these capitalistic monopolies enforce their monopolies? They do it through the government by creating arbitrary regulations and barriers to entry. We are already living in a world where the housing monopolies are enforcing their will on the population. Getting rid of these regulations, and allowing people to build so many houses that the market price gets driven into the ground, is how we take the market back for the people.
      - sosborn 10y ago
        > allowing people to build so many houses that the market price gets driven into the ground I live in Honolulu, Hawaii. Prices here are RIDICULOUS, but this is the last thing I want. At some point growth has to stop or we will lose what makes this place what it is.
        omegaham 10y ago
        Then the prices will keep going up and drive out the regular renters anyway. Either you expand, (up or out) or the place gets turned into a playground for the rich.
      - makomk 10y ago
        They do it through the fact that being a monopoly or oligopoly is inherently more profitable than not being one, so if you don't play along you're basically leaving money on the floor.
        stale2002 10y ago
        When monopolies exist, that means that there is currently money being left on the table. Someone ELSE can come it, charge less, and get all the customers to go to them instead. This is what allowing more houses to be built would do.
        michaelt 10y ago
- mahyarm 10y ago
  London comes from capital going to it due to very low property tax rates and basically no income tax for wealthy foreign people via 'non-domiciled' resident tax law. Housing becomes a store of wealth / commodity investment vs. a thing you use like a car. As a result a property investment bubble feeds on itself and creates the london problem. To reverse that you make it unattractive as a store of wealth and attractive as an active investment via renting it out. And you remove supply creation limits. You would decrease the unfair demand side by taxing them like a typical UK resident. Also zoning policy usually doesn't help at all with typical height limits.
  - branchless 10y ago
    Also the govt has shown there is a put on property as the UK is a land pyramid scheme. They bailed out all the banks to prop it up. After this help2buy (help2sell in reality) to have the govt underwrite risk when the banks stepped out. This isn't capitalism.
    - ghostDancer 10y ago
      It's the perfect capitalism: private profits, public loses, and then blame it to the non-free market.
    - collyw 10y ago
      Don't forget 8 years or so of "emergency" low interest rates.
- eru 10y ago
  The proper solution is markets plus land value taxation with revenues going to (or at least shared with) local bodies. The land value tax aligns the incentives right, so that the local administrations have an incentive to put the proper regulations in place.
xkcd-sucks 10y ago
How is a welfare state different from an epicycle such as rent control?
- fsloth 10y ago
  The aim of a welfare state is to redistribute wealth to a point where no-one needs to be afraid of dying of hunger, cold, or trivially treatable medical conditions and can have a primary education. There are no pure market mechanism that would take care of these needs. I would not call a welfare state an epicycle.
disposeofnick9 10y ago
American, libertarian, anarchistic capitalism has proved too extreme an overreaction to it's nemesis doppelgänger, communism. Democratic capitalism with sensible safety nets and evironmental regulations isn't as suicidal for us and the planet as what the Koch bros want. Furthermore, with deep learning and automation of most jobs (human-piloted transport, white-collar analyst jobs) will create millions upon millions of people without jobs or retrainable prospects while remaining, ultraefficient and uberprofitable businesses hoard cash while bleeding out the middle class, the engine of the economy. Lots of idle, unemployed, broke people is a recipe for unrest and civil strife.
- visarga 10y ago
  In the short run, people should have social protection. The first generations are going to be jobless and penniless otherwise. But in the long run people are not going to just sit around collecting UBI. They can still work, but on other things. Society will develop new areas of interest in which it will invest the available money. The focus will fall on science, sports, culture and social projects, which are going to keep everyone busy and at the same time advance us even further. As society changes, education will have to adapt to the new requirements. There will still be jobs, but in domains that perhaps now are not even imagined.

andy_ppp 10y ago

The easiest solution is always capitalism, I agree, I'm fairly certain however it's harder to find somewhere to rent in London and paying more in Berlin still reaps results (having lived there as an IT contractor for 4 months from London I should know). I think these things can be solved in Berlin much more easily than most capital cities (i.e. there is substantial space to build new homes that simply doesn't exist in London or New York say). Simply saying "be more capitalist" might work, but I'd say build more quality homes on all the scratchy pieces of land that exist round Berlin is an equally good option above firing people into the weird world of London property. Finally the AirBnB/rentals thing is a result I'd guess of the massive number of people who hate having tourists traipsing through their buildings. My experience at least centrally was of large shared blocks of high quality flats and a lot of suspicion around strangers being granted entry to said gated communities.

quanticle 10y ago
Being more capitalist is how you create the incentives that result in more quality homes being built on the scratchy pieces of land that exist around Berlin.
- disposeofnick9 10y ago
  It doesn't, actually. In the US, there are just a few apartment consortiums which own the lion's share of the fleet of newer construction units. Anarchist capitalism encourage supply-side monopolist hegemony, not competition. Competition is undesirable for capitalists when supplying goods and services and optimally minimized, it is desirable by buyers but this is mostly irrelevant in an artificially-controlled supply market where demand is inelastic. If Hyperloop were rolled out across most continents, empty land could be "closer" to economic centers and housing supply would be effectively increased by widening the commute radius, making it more affordable.
  - stale2002 10y ago
    How do you think these capitalistic monopolies enforce their monopolies? They do it through the government by creating arbitrary regulations and barriers to entry. We are already living in a world where the housing monopolies are enforcing their will on the population. Getting rid of these regulations, and allowing people to build so many houses that the market price gets driven into the ground, is how we take the market back for the people.
    - sosborn 10y ago
      > allowing people to build so many houses that the market price gets driven into the ground I live in Honolulu, Hawaii. Prices here are RIDICULOUS, but this is the last thing I want. At some point growth has to stop or we will lose what makes this place what it is.
      - omegaham 10y ago
        Then the prices will keep going up and drive out the regular renters anyway. Either you expand, (up or out) or the place gets turned into a playground for the rich.
    - makomk 10y ago
      They do it through the fact that being a monopoly or oligopoly is inherently more profitable than not being one, so if you don't play along you're basically leaving money on the floor.
      - stale2002 10y ago
        When monopolies exist, that means that there is currently money being left on the table. Someone ELSE can come it, charge less, and get all the customers to go to them instead. This is what allowing more houses to be built would do.
        michaelt 10y ago
mahyarm 10y ago
London comes from capital going to it due to very low property tax rates and basically no income tax for wealthy foreign people via 'non-domiciled' resident tax law. Housing becomes a store of wealth / commodity investment vs. a thing you use like a car. As a result a property investment bubble feeds on itself and creates the london problem. To reverse that you make it unattractive as a store of wealth and attractive as an active investment via renting it out. And you remove supply creation limits. You would decrease the unfair demand side by taxing them like a typical UK resident. Also zoning policy usually doesn't help at all with typical height limits.
- branchless 10y ago
  Also the govt has shown there is a put on property as the UK is a land pyramid scheme. They bailed out all the banks to prop it up. After this help2buy (help2sell in reality) to have the govt underwrite risk when the banks stepped out. This isn't capitalism.
  - ghostDancer 10y ago
    It's the perfect capitalism: private profits, public loses, and then blame it to the non-free market.
  - collyw 10y ago
    Don't forget 8 years or so of "emergency" low interest rates.
eru 10y ago
The proper solution is markets plus land value taxation with revenues going to (or at least shared with) local bodies. The land value tax aligns the incentives right, so that the local administrations have an incentive to put the proper regulations in place.

xkcd-sucks 10y ago

How is a welfare state different from an epicycle such as rent control?

fsloth 10y ago
The aim of a welfare state is to redistribute wealth to a point where no-one needs to be afraid of dying of hunger, cold, or trivially treatable medical conditions and can have a primary education. There are no pure market mechanism that would take care of these needs. I would not call a welfare state an epicycle.

disposeofnick9 10y ago

American, libertarian, anarchistic capitalism has proved too extreme an overreaction to it's nemesis doppelgänger, communism. Democratic capitalism with sensible safety nets and evironmental regulations isn't as suicidal for us and the planet as what the Koch bros want. Furthermore, with deep learning and automation of most jobs (human-piloted transport, white-collar analyst jobs) will create millions upon millions of people without jobs or retrainable prospects while remaining, ultraefficient and uberprofitable businesses hoard cash while bleeding out the middle class, the engine of the economy. Lots of idle, unemployed, broke people is a recipe for unrest and civil strife.

visarga 10y ago
In the short run, people should have social protection. The first generations are going to be jobless and penniless otherwise. But in the long run people are not going to just sit around collecting UBI. They can still work, but on other things. Society will develop new areas of interest in which it will invest the available money. The focus will fall on science, sports, culture and social projects, which are going to keep everyone busy and at the same time advance us even further. As society changes, education will have to adapt to the new requirements. There will still be jobs, but in domains that perhaps now are not even imagined.